Charles T Russell -a freemason and the connection to the illuminati...

by dolphman 177 Replies latest jw friends

  • BeelzeDub
    BeelzeDub

    http://www.masonicinfo.com/famousnon.htm

    Russell Watchtower Society MonumentThere is no credible evidence whatsoever that Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses faith, was a Mason. Some have charged that his tombstone appears as a keystone (a symbol used in Royal Arch Masonry), that there appears on the stone a crown and cross and that the stone is in the shape of a pyramid. (Those who make the claim do so for their own ends ignoring the fact that the cross and crown have long been symbols of Christianity, that the pyramid is often used in one-dimension view to represent the Trinity etc.) A review of Russell's personal life would have likely found him unwelcome within a Lodge. A current author says of him "Russell's faults as a writer were perhaps the least of his shortcomings. Accusations of sexual and financial improprieties, for example, dogged him throughout his adult life. Russell's notorious difficulties with his long-suffering wife Maria, aired during a series of sensational libel, separation, and alimony suits near the turn of the century, became a particular source of embarrassment for both the pastor and his flock. (Russell's stature couldn't have been enhanced when a Pennsylvania judge concluded that his "continual arrogant domination" of his wife was enough to "render the life of any sensitive Christian woman a burden and make her life intolerable." 3 This notwithstanding, Pastor Russell did, upon occasion, make reference to Masons. Charles Taze Russell's actual gravestone One internet supporter of Russell's regularly argues that Freemasonry was totally against the Preacher's philosophy but the argument he makes is based on his interpretation rather than facts. Those attempting to condemn Russell based on Masonic membership fail to produce any evidence of his membership (the name of his lodge or the names of lodges he ostensibly visited, for example) and his supporters use faulty logic in arguing against it. Russell is not mentioned in any Masonic reference works, a unique situation indeed if he were a Mason because of his notoriety.

    Oh, and did we mention?: the "tombstone" that's so often referred to is actually a monument erected to Russell by the Watchtower Society which has regularly criticized Freemasonry. Pastor Russell's actual gravestone (shown above) is a couple of dozen yards away....

  • dolphman
    dolphman

    Alan F:

    You won't find any of this info in the Watchtower CD Encyclopedia. This stuff is ALL over the internet, and not just from dubious resources.

    I can when I get the free time put together a list of links (some of which link to actual photocopied copies of early WTBTS material) that point to various sermons Russell gave in masonic lodges, records of early WTBTS financial records and Bible study meetings (Of which Rothschilds are listed). In the meantime, try googling for that stuff yourself, and see what you can come up with. (try search phrases such as "russell" and "rothschild")

    Beelzebeb

    Your post doesn't do much to discredit the ascertion Russell was a freemason. For one, the article says

    Some have charged that his tombstone appears as a keystone (a symbol used in Royal Arch Masonry), that there appears on the stone a crown and cross and that the stone is in the shape of a pyramid. (Those who make the claim do so for their own ends ignoring the fact that the cross and crown have long been symbols of Christianity, that the pyramid is often used in one-dimension view to represent the Trinity etc.)

    This does little to refute anything. Regardless of whether or not the cross and crown have long been symbols of Christianity, they ARE in fact THE SYMBOLS used to signify Masons. The pyramid representing the trinity? Did Russell believe in the trinity at the time? Say the cross and crown were in fact just meant to signify christianity. But with the addition of huge freaking pyramid (a well used Masonic symbol, check your dollar bill), not to mention a huge Masonic temple across the street from the graveyard, leads to believe Masonic, not Christian icons, were being intentionally used. This website doesn't bother to include that besides his gravestone, he used the symbol of the sun god Ra with wings on the cover of one of his books, another masonic symbol. AND, the words Watchtower and Golden Dawn are two big buzzwords used in Masonic vernacular.

    One thing to also note is the website is an acutal Masonic lodge information site. This is much like going to www.watchtower.com and getting your info on JWs there.

    Personally, I believe Russell was a hodgepodge of many things, Mason, Rosicrutian, whatever. He was in leauge with many. Were they up to diabolical schemes? I'm not sure yet. I still have an open mind to all of it.

  • BeelzeDub
    BeelzeDub
    One thing to also note is the website is an acutal Masonic lodge information site. This is much like going to www.watchtower.com and getting your info on JWs there.

    I guess all the other people they listed as famous non-masons is just a conspiracy too.

    If so, I would be more worried about what "diabolical schemes" Dick Cheny is up to than Russell.

    At least I provided a link to a masonic web-site to back it up, where is your proof beyond the conspiracy theories running rampid in your head?

  • dolphman
    dolphman
    I guess all the other people they listed as famous non-masons is just a conspiracy too.

    Well, when you think about it, the masons are a secret society. It makes sense they would lie to keep secrets then. They pretty much admit that up front.

    If so, I would be more worried about what "diabolical schemes" Dick Cheny is up to than Russell.

    I agree with you on this.

    At least I provided a link to a masonic web-site to back it up, where is your proof beyond the conspiracy theories running rampid in your head?

    Like I told AlanF, try using Google, search using phrases such as "Russell, Rothschild, illuminati" all in one search.

    You will find wack jobs out there. But, you'll also find photocopies of old WTBTS publications, transcribed sermons, etc. On Ebay you can find some of Russell's first books. One of them features the symbology i was talking about (the sun god Ra). I forget the name of it. I'm sure someone on this board knows which one I'm talking about.

    The truth is definitely out there. I'll put together a concise listing of links when i get a chance. Until then, Google it.

  • TD
    TD

    Dolphman,


    None of us can know in absolute terms that Russell was not secretly a Freemason. No one can prove a negative, which is why the burden of proof falls squarely upon the claimant here.


    Please understand two of the main reasons why people are skeptical when you say the proof is out there, especially when all one has to do is Google it:


    First, Besides having a huge personal library, RR has access to what is probably the largest collection of Russell's writings anywhere. Alan F. has a very complete library as well. Heck, I've got multiple editions of all Russell's major works myself and a few other JWD participants probably do as well.


    Second: This is not a new debate by any stretch. This question was examined at length by M James Penton, an exJW and professor of history. Some of the people expressing skepticism on this thread have also researched the question thoroughly. No one has come up with anything suggestive of a connection to Freemasonry beyond a very weak circumstantial argument for which there exist plausible alternative explanations. This is not proof, at least not in the legal or logical sense.


    Because of these two reasons, I'm sure you can understand why this claim gets attention. You're not being gang-tackled, it's just that if anything truly new has been discovered, it would be very interesting, even sensational.


    Tom

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    The Bible Students Online provide some of the very early Watch Towers at

    http://www.ctrussell.us/

    On the left side click Watchtower. That will take you to the issues by year. Click 1891. Then look for the Dec. 1 number and click. You will find the letter of Charles Taze Russell to Baron Hirsch and Hirsch's compatriot, Baron Rothschild. If someone has the capability to reproduce it here, that would be great. I guess that's permissible????

    Anyway, it appears to me that Russell knows neither of these two men personally, but has heard of them. He begins off by stating that he is a Christian, but has the highest regards for the Jews and to prove this, he is sending them two volumes of his works on the topic. His whole point is to try to persuade Hirsch and Rothschild to work for the return of the Jews to Palestine (which he believes is Scriptural and God's plan), "therefore not to waste your efforts in assisting imigration elsewhere but concentrate them in the direction God has indicated success."

  • amac
    amac

    Here's a slant to the argument...even if he was a Freemason...who cares. First off the initial post was completely flawed in the history of the Freemasons, and second off, what is wrong with being a freemason? The Illuminati was seperate from the Freemasons in its formation, so most people who think that Freemasons are out to rule the world are way off.

  • dolphman
    dolphman

    TD said,





    Dude, I know that. I could care less. I'm really impressed with AlanF's library. I bet it is the bomb.

    There is this new invention, maybe you've heard of it, called a "computer". You can hook it up to the "internet". Now, if you're smart enough, you can "use" your computer to sort through tons of bullshit and sometimes discover actual "information".

    TD also said:

    "No one has come up with anything suggestive of a connection to Freemasonry beyond a very weak circumstantial argument for which there exist plausible alternative explanations.

    I'm sorry, but the debate is FAR from over.

    Check out these websites here. Could you explain the plausible alternative explanations in great detail? Really. I want to hear an honest explanation as to how Russell aboslutely had nothing to do with masonry.

    http://www.exjws.net/museum/masonry.htm
    http://www.bigwig.net/knots/nightmares/notice.htmhttp://www.premier1.net/~raines/disc.html
    http://www.pnc.com.au/~fichrist/Masons.html
    http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/russell.htm

    The last link is a little much, it goes on to talk in great detail about Satanic rituals within the WTBTS, etc. I think the guy who wrote it is a kook, however, some of the information he provides is useful for digging up and tracking down more factual informaiton elswhere. Look into his connections between the Rosicrusians and Russell, as well as other members of Russell's family.

    I'm beginning to belive that even if Russell was not a freemason, he was at least affiliated with them to some degree. There is a possibility he was a Rosicrusian, who are known to share memberships with freemasons. Russell denied he was not a freemason at times, and hinted at it in others. Using my deductive reasoning, I believe he was doing what any member of a secret society would do, keep it a secret.

    In any case, I make the argument he was heavily influenced by them at the very least. Do you honestly think YOU can make an argument that he in no way shape or form had nothing to do in ANY WAY with them, after reviewing this evidence? Let me know how you come to your conclusions. You see, there is a debate after all.


    BTW, I find it funny he was buried off a street entitled Masonic Way. Again, this must be another weak circumstantial evidence that absolutely NOTHING AT ALL MASONIC can be associated with Russell.

    Hmmmm....

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    It is no secret. Russell's views on the Masons can be seen for yourselves. Go back to the link I gave you and go to the June 15, 1895 Watch Tower, page 143 and scroll down to "Secret and Beneficial Societies." After you have finished that one go to the Aug. 1, 1895 issue, page 182 and scroll down to "Consecration Vs. The World and Its Affairs". He's written other things on the Masons that I can try to find if someone is interested. But my recollection is that his views never changed. It is true that he often spoke in Masonic halls, but so did others (including ministers) who also had no connections to Masonry. It was customry for Masons to rent their lodges to different groups and for different functions.

    Dolphman, you state that "I find it funny that he was buried off a street entitled Masonic Way." Actually the address of Rosemount United Cemeteries at Allegheny, Pa. is 226 Cemetery Lane. Masonic Way is a nearby road, so named not because Russell is buried there, but because there is a Masonic temple some distance across from the cemetery. Besides, do you imagine that everyone buried in Rosemount is a Mason? .

  • TD
    TD


    Greetings Dolphman,

    Don't misunderstand --- It's not that I wouldn't like to see proof that Russell was a Mason. As I stated previously, if anything truly new has been discovered, it would be sensational.

    Check out these websites here. Could you explain the plausible alternative explanations in great detail? Really. I want to hear an honest explanation as to how Russell aboslutely had nothing to do with masonry.


    Honestly; I can't prove that "Russell absolutely had nothing to do with masonry."

    First: Unless I've completely misunderstood you, that's not even the issue here at all. The original assertion, made by you, is that, "Russell was a freemason." There are plausible ways that he may have had something "to do with masonry" that do not validate that original assertion. In fact, you've explicitly stated one of them yourself:

    "Russell probably dabbled in a hodgepodge of different orders, collectively taking what he wanted from all of them and funnelling their ideology and symbology into the WTBTS"

    Co-opting Masonic ideology and symbolism would not have required that he actually be a Mason himself, since he openly admitted that he had friends that were. I think this can be illustrated through a parallel. Penton, Jonsson and others have already documented that few, if any of Russell's major religious doctrines were not taught by others before him. The only really unique thing about Russell, was his combination of teachings. For example, Russell, had friends and associates who were Second Adventists and he borrowed among other things, the concept of an invisible Parousia from a group headed by Barbour, but was never actually a Second Adventist himself. The precedent is therefore already in place.

    In view of the fact that Russell was given to this mode of operation, it is certainly plausible that he may have borrowed "ideology and symbology" from Masonry, but this in and of itself does not factually establish that he at any point was a Mason.

    Second: Instead of actually proving the assertion, you are instead asking that it be disproved. This is the fallacy of shifting burden of proof. You're the claimant here. You're the one that must needs present a connected series of statements in the establishment of your original assertion. You've presented links to websites, that you obviously consider evidential, but you've not presented an argument. Further, proving a negative, which is what you're essentially asking for, is a logical fallacy in its own rite. I can't prove a negative. Nobody can. It's for precisely this reason that I've already explicitly stated that, "None of us can know in absolute terms that Russell was not secretly a Freemason."

    I've read through the four captioned websites, but I can neither collate nor prioritize your evidence for you and as much as I would like to, I can't answer, "in great detail", an argument that doesn't actually seem to have been presented yet. Specifically, why do you believe Russell was a Mason? What evidence have you read that is especially compelling to you?

    Until an actual argument is put forth, the most I can do is offer general comment:

    #1 http://www.exjws.net/museum/masonry.htm

    Appears to be affliated with Freeminds website. Two evidentiary items.

    A. Photocopies of a 1913 convention report containing the discourse, "The Temple Of God." No argument presented.

    Briefly, Russell refers to Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists and Masons as "friends." Russell says that he is a "Free Mason" (Two words, emphasis on 'Free') but qualifies with, "not just after the style of our Masonic brethren." (p.120) Russell goes on to explain at length what he means by these statements. All "true" Christians including Jesus himself are living stones in the heavenly temple of God. Russell seems to think this temple of God is a pyramid built from the top down with Jesus, the "great mason" as the top piece. (pp. 121-122) Russell fleshes out this illustration with a number of direct parallels to Masonry, but emphasizes throughout that what he is speaking about is heavenly. The "free" in Russell's use of the term, "Free Masonry" means freedom from sin. (p. 123) Russell explains what is required to become a "Spiritual Mason" ---It means putting on the white robe and accepting the higher calling. (p.125)

    Although Russell demonstrates a familiarity with Freemasonry, I believe it would take serious reading comprehension problems to misinterpret this as a declaration of Russell's membership in or affiliation therein.

    B. Eight pictures: No argument presented.

    1. Cross and crown emblem on early Watch Tower
    2. Bible Student (?) picture of Jesus on cross (!) (No reference)
    3. Winged Sun Disk appearing on various hardbound Bible Student books
    4.- 6. Queens assembly hall
    7.- 8. Original Bethel burial plot marker designed by Bonet (again with cross and crown)

    In addition to lack of argument, no proof is offered that any of these are Masonic symbols at all, save the unadorned claim. Not one word about who built the Queens assembly hall and when.


    #2 http://www.bigwig.net/knots/nightmares/notice.htmhttp://www.premier1.net/~raines/disc.html

    URL appears to link to Ken Raines, ?JW Research? website. Link is dead

    #3 http://www.pnc.com.au/~fichrist/Masons.html

    Australian ?Free In Christ? website. Selected excerpts and evidence from The Watchtower & The Masons by Fritz Springmeier

    Here at last, we have a semblance of an argument even if it does take the form of the fallacy of bad company. ---Since Russell knew about Freemasonry, he therefore must certainly have been one. By that argument, I would be one of Jehovah?s Witnesses! (Geez what an epithet)

    Predictiably, Springmeier dismisses all contrary evidence, (e.g. Russell?s many unfavorable comments about them, his demonstrable ignorance about the more esoteric aspects of Masonry, and even his overt denial of membership) with blind assertion and speculation about smokescreens. The contrary evidence is, with a little imagination, made to serve as evidence. ?Them tricky Masons!


    #4 http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/russell.htm

    This is the work of a complete whackjob. Next to this guy, The National Enquirer is a scholarly journal.

    BTW, I find it funny he was buried off a street entitled Masonic Way. Again, this must be another weak circumstantial evidence that absolutely NOTHING AT ALL MASONIC can be associated with Russell.

    Do you know when this street was named? ---Could it have been around the time the Masonic complex across the street was built?

    Best Regards,

    Tom


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