by Schizm 104 Replies latest jw friends
Schisms Too bad though that the artist doesn't know the real truth about the scene he painted. I only wish I was younger and could get the artist to teach me his skills as an artist. Yes, got to hand it to him for that!
What about the Truth concerning Lot ? YOU painted (whitewashed) an awful scene about incest with Lot and his daughters !
Aren't you just a little embarrassed about that ? Have you changed your mind ? I hope you do. Your credibility is on the line.
Too bad though that the artist doesn't know the real truth about the scene he painted.Yah, like it never happened. Still, as you say.S
Since you obviously wasn't there at the time, what makes you so sure that it never happened?
Herod was a real, historical person. Jerusalem was, and still is a historical city. Likewise, Bethlehem was, and still is, a historical city. The house that Jesus lived in as a child is still standing there where it was at the time the Magi visited. (Just kidding about that. *LOL*) Why is the account in Matthew 2 so hard for you to accept?
.
Watch carefully everyone...Schism is still scared of answering my simple question about Lot.
I predict...in his next post...he will run away again !
Well, for a start, there is no record of all those kids being killed. As someone mentioned, josephus would have included it in his histories if it happened.
Secondly, there may have been some type of figure similar to jesus, but there is very little evidence outside of the bible that he existed. Secular referrals to him, if gathered together, would not fill one 8.5 by 11 inch page. Perhaps only half the page. For a man of jesus' abilities, teachings, miraculous works, resurrection, etc to be left out of the secular history pages goes beyond the limits of reason, but not beyond faith, i suppose.
S
Ps, answering your original question, i accept very little of the bible as factual, that includes the gospels
Well, for a start, there is no record of all those kids being killed. As someone mentioned, josephus would have included it in his histories if it happened.
Yes, that was Gumby I believe who expressed that thought. I have a copy of Josephus' book, and have read a little of it. At the moment I can't remember exactly what it was that Josephus had said, but it was something that caused me to doubt his credibility. Maybe I'll remember what it was later, and if I do I'll bring it to your attention. Funny how that was such a "biggy" for me at the time, but now I've forgotten what it was.
Ps, answering your original question, i accept very little of the bible as factual, that includes the gospels
Yes, I remember from reading some of your past posts how you feel about the Bible. If you're stance is correct, then the millions of us who place our trust in the Bible's message are ignorant fools. Of course I don't believe for a minute that we are ... but you understand what I'm trying to say.
.
schizim: you should read matthew chapter 2 closely. you will see it was the jewish leaders, who first told herod about the star. and how it was forfullment of prophecy. IT WAS NOT THE MAGI. THE MAGI ONLY TOLD HEROD ,WHEN THEY SAW THE STAR. and never returned to herod. -- johnny cip.
Johnny,
Might I suggest that you read the account again? You've got things backwards.
.
Schizm,
The first few chapters of the book of Matthew, including the narrative about the Magi, contain some of the most obvious exaggerations and inaccuracies to be found in the entire Bible.
Matthew starts off with the claim that throughout history the theme of 14 generations repeated itself until the time of Jesus.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations; and from the deportation to Babylon to the Messiah, fourteen generations. Matt 1:17 (NRSV)
Apparently the author of Matthew couldn?t count. Not only does his claim conflict with other parts of the Bible, it conflicts with his own statements. He lists only 13 generations from Abraham to David, unless you count Abraham as the first generation. He next lists 14 generations from David to Jechoniah, but from Jechoniah to Jesus there are again only 13 generations.
Even more interesting is comparison of Matthew?s genealogy list with Luke?s list. In Luke, if we don?t count Abraham, there are 14 generations from Abraham to David. The difference is that Luke includes Arni and Admin in place of Matthew?s Aram. From this point on, things get even worse. In Luke, there are 42 generations from David to Jesus, compared to Matthew?s 27 generations
Starting at Matthew 1:22, the author attempts to portray the events of Jesus? birth and the events surrounding his birth as foretold through the prophets. This continues through Matthew 3:3.
22 All this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 "Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means, "God is with us." Matt 1:22-23 (NRSV)
5 They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it has been written by the prophet: 6 'And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who is to shepherd my people Israel.'" Matt 2:5-6 (NRSV)
14 Then Joseph got up, took the child and his mother by night, and went to Egypt, 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet, "Out of Egypt I have called my son." Matt 2:14-15 (NRSV)
17 Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah: 18 "A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children; she refused to be consoled, because they are no more." Matt 2:17-18 (NRSV)
22 But when he heard that Archelaus was ruling over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And after being warned in a dream, he went away to the district of Galilee. 23 There he made his home in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, "He will be called a Nazorean." Matt 2:22-23 (NRSV)
3 This is the one of whom the prophet Isaiah spoke when he said, "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.'" Matt 3:3 (NRSV)
In slightly more than one chapter, the author has presented 6 prophecies that have been fulfilled by the birth of Jesus. Like many of the authors from the first century, it seems obvious that he is not above exaggerating the truth to support his claims.
Moving on to the narrative about the Magi, it should be obvious to anyone in their right mind that you cannot follow a star to a specific location such as a town, much less a specific house in that town. The Magi would have known this. The story is pure fiction.
pseudo
I'd also like to know what Jesus' family did with all that gold. They would have been rich beyond their wildest dreams and never had to have worked again.
Did Joseph squander it all on loose women and booze? Did they make some poor investment decisions? Where did it go?
pseudochrist, i can't follow your argument about the generations (only talking about the inner consistency of the matthew narrative, i know about the incompatibility with luke and the OT).
counting from abraham to david we have 14 generations (including abraham).
then counting from david to josias (And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel;) we have 14 generations, including david.
then counting from josias to joseph we have 14 generations, including josias. ah well, it says unto christ, not unto joseph, so you are right. there are either two missing generations in the first and last "14" or one generation too many in the last "14".
got it.
Where does it say in scripture the star was put there by God? Most Churches say that God was the source of the star, but the context surrounding the account suggests that is false. If the star hadn't appeared, the Magi would not have went to Jerusalem and come into contact with jealous King Herod. As a result of the star appearing there was an attempt made on Jesus' life.Simple, huh?
But wasn't that the purpose of Christ-- to come to earth to die? To be a sacrifice for our sins? To die so that we could be released from the clutches of Satan?
I agree, the answer is quite simple: If, by dying, Jesus would have loosened Satan's dominion over us, Satan would have done everything in his power to keep Christ from getting killed.
Personally, I don't understand why Christians get all pissed off about Satan and Judas conspiring to kill Jesus.
If you insist on interpreting this tale literally, please do us a favor and remember that everything that happened was supposed to happen the way it happened (Divine plan, remember?). Praise Jehovah, brother, because you have a chance at eternal life. How's about showing a little gratitude?
Why dont you wipe that snot off your nose and pull that stick out of your butt? Throw a party with the magnitude of the ones that King David use to throw. Get out your drink and your musical instrument and make a joyful noise unto the Lord for all that he has done for you.
And last but not least, stop being a whiney bastard. Jehovah doesn't need you to defend him.
Love,
Robyn
