Ballistic:So harassment is determined by "feeling harassed", rather than a socially acceptable standard of behaviour?Well, partly. I'm not trying to give a simple answer to a complex question. The socially acceptable standard of behaviour does change from place to place and even time of day. If you wrote down the rules as a formula, I guess there would be included some kind of feed-back loop where what is socially acceptable depends on whether it is acceptable to the recipient or not.
Sexual Harassment
by LittleToe 163 Replies latest jw friends
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ballistic
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LittleToe
Flower:
...but I would think in the case of a person going beyond what is even a little acceptable then...
I'm trying to ascertain what folks generally see as acceptable behaviour.
I wonder if in some cases we checked our sensibilities in at the door when we entered the JW's and never checked them out again (or in the case of lifers, never picked them up) once we left...Brummie:
Thanks, pal. Though I probably wouldn't wear a suit to a Fest, but that's just me -
LittleToe
Ballistic:
Well, partly. I'm not trying to give a simple answer to a complex question.
That's ok. I'm genuinely intersted in your opinion.
The socially acceptable standard of behaviour does change from place to place and even time of day. If you wrote down the rules as a formula, I guess there would be included some kind of feed-back loop where what is socially acceptable depends on whether it is acceptable to the recipient or not.
I would agree with this, too.
So if the "recipient" expresses non-compliance would it be appropriate to push it? -
hemp lover
I wonder if in some cases we checked our sensibilities in at the door when we entered the JW's and never checked them out again (or in the case of lifers, never picked them up) once we left...
You took the words right out of my fingertips. I've only been to a few Apostafests (sorry about personalizing this to ex-JWs), but they've been wilder than any "worldly" parties I've ever attended - not that I didn't have fun to a point. I'm definitely not a prude or someone who has a problem with people cutting loose. But it's like some have gone completely opposite of where they used to be, when perhaps somewhere around the middle or left of center or hell, even right of center (but not too much, please), would work just fine as well.
This has been an eye-opening thread for me and I can't really add any new insights, except to say that the double standard is frustrating. When I started reading the hypothetical questions about asking a woman if she wears underwear, lifting the skirt, etc., my first thoughts were that I'd have kneed the bastard in the bollocks (and have done so, come to think of it). But as others have pointed out, that's a huge societal no-no when the genders are reversed, not to say that it wouldn't be deserved. The few times I've had to get firm with people who didn't understand "no" have been very frightening and upsetting, especially if it's someone you know. You feel like you're the bad guy or that others will think you're making a big deal out of nothing. ("Hey, it's only a little pinch. Nobody else seems to mind.")
I'm sorry you've had unpleasant experiences with kilt-wearing in America, LT, (oops, there I go personalizing again), but I hope you'll still wear it in future. I have a feeling that after this thread, you'll be treated a bit more respectfully.
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Sunspot
** the chances of me doing so again are significantly diminished.
(((LittleToe,)))
This saddens me. The odds of my ever getting to an Apostafest are pretty well shot, it still makes me feel bad that you would be forced to NOT wear your kilt because of "other's" behavior. I DO understand WHY, but it still makes me feel very bad somehow.
I know little about the Scottish culture and traditions, but I know that as I've seen the different posts throughout the years I've been here---I've always thought when you wore a kilt to the "fests" that it was really neat. Kinda adds to the flavor of how multi-national we all are, ya know?
As for anyone, male or female, asking about anyone's undergarments---I think I'd just look'em straight in the eye and ask THEM "why do you want to know?"....and turn and walk swiftly away.
Hugs,
Annie
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Xandria
No, should mean "NO". If a woman can said it, shouldn't a man be able too? Harassment, can range on a lot of things. From making someone feel uncomfortable to all out hazing behavior.
Assertive conversation or asserting yourself by telling the person to stop, is one way of trying to stop that harassment. There are risks to this too. Some people feed off the excitment of the chase, they have some sort of thrill out of it. They take the "no" as playing hard to get. An the behavior esculates.
Where the harassment happens is when a person chooses to ignore the boundaries and continues in the behavior that is causing the other person to be uncomfortable~ even out right humiliation. No one has the right to demean another person. Why cause someone emotional, mental, even physical pain?
There is nothing wrong with asserting yourself and going after what you want in life, as long as you know boundaries and respect personal space, feelings, and so on. It should be a common sense thing, unfortunately there are some who ignore the boundaries.
I know that there are some out there who get off on cause people embarassment or think that it enhances their personality by acting out in this type of behavior. To many it is about control, how they perceive other people view this behavior. They think it is "cool" it makes them the "man" or the "woman", for that matter. When it just makes them abusive.
It is a major turn off when someone decides to act out like this. Anyone who is a victim of this behavior has the right to try to stop it. Sadly, sometimes it means making changes in the victim's lives. Harassment is an ugly thing anyway you slice it. It is a rape and betrayal of trust. That is just how I see it.
Xandria
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seven006
self edited
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ballistic
So if the "recipient" expresses non-compliance would it be appropriate to push it?
No - because it is not socially acceptable to infringe the rights of another.
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Brummie
I am not trying to defend Red's actions but simply trying to understand them beyond the surface. Every one of us deserve that
I applaud you Dave, I really do!
we are all a little bit broken. Some a lot more then others and for a lot more serious reasons.
I think that is worth repeating over and over.