Do you want the real truth or not?

by Jason 175 Replies latest jw friends

  • Jason
    Jason

    "Six literal days? Interesting. So how do you explain the various fossil layers and the real laws of physics that determine sedimentation rates.
    How do you explain the fact that no human or, for that matter, mammalian fossils are present in the earliest layers?"

    The Bible teaches (Genesis 1) that man was here from Day Six of the creation week – created the same day as land animals (which includes dinosaurs) and one day after the sea creatures and the birds.

    Evolutionists claim that the order in the fossil record (e.g. trilobites deep down and humans near the top) is due to a succession of life forms on Earth, which occurred over many hundreds of millions of years. In this view, the rock strata represent huge periods of time.

    On the other hand, creationists believe that most of the fossils were formed during the year-long global Flood recorded in Genesis chapters 6—9. Thus creationists believe that the order in the fossil record is due to the order of burial during the Flood, and the local catastrophes that followed. So, skeptics ask, why are human fossils not found with dinosaur fossils, for example?

    Do the rock strata represent eons of time?

    There is a wealth of evidence that the rock strata do not represent vast periods of time. For example, the huge Coconino sandstone formation in the Grand Canyon is about 100 m thick and extends to some 250,000 km2 in area. The large-scale cross-bedding shows that it was all laid down in deep, fast-flowing water in a matter of days. Other rock layers in the Grand Canyon indicate that they were rapidly deposited also, and without substantial time-breaks between the laying down of each unit. Indeed, the whole Grand Canyon sequence is bent at the Kaibab Upwarp, in some spots quite radically, and without cracking. This indicates that the strata, which supposedly represent some 300 million years of evolutionary time, were all still soft when the bending occurred. This is consistent with the layers being deposited and bent quickly, during the Genesis Flood.

    [For other evidences for the non-existence of the eons of time and for the rapid deposition of the layers, please see the Answers Book, The Young Earth, and Raging Waters
    Q&A: Living Fossils and Q&A: Geology.]

    Evidence that dinosaurs
    and humans co-existed

    Much evidence suggests that people and dinosaurs lived together, not separated by 65 million years or more, as evolutionists believe:

    Many historical accounts of living animals, which were known as ‘dragons’, are good descriptions of what we call dinosaurs – such as Triceratops, Stegosaurus, Tyrannosaurus and Ankylosaurus. The video, The Great Dinosaur Mystery documents some of these. The account in Job 40 of behemoth sounds like one of the big dinosaurs, such as Apatosaurus or Brachiosaurus.

    Unmineralized (‘unfossilized’) dinosaur bones. How could these bones, some of which even have blood cells in them, be 65 million years or more old? It stretches the imagination to believe they are even many thousands of years old.

    lRocks bearing dinosaur fossils often contain very little plant material – e.g., in the Morrison formation in North America. This is another indication that the strata do not represent eras of life on Earth. If the strata represent an age of dinosaurs, what did they eat? A large Apatosaurus would need over three tonnes of vegetation per day, yet there is no indication of significant vegetation in many of these dinosaur-bearing strata. In other words, we see buried dinosaurs, not buried ecosystems or an ‘Age of Dinosaurs’.

    What about the general pattern?

    Although the rock strata do not represent a series of epochs of Earth history, as is widely believed, they still follow a general pattern. For example, relatively immobile and bottom-dwelling sea creatures tend to be found in the lower strata that contain complex organisms, and the mobile land vertebrates tend to be found in the top layers. Consider the following factors:

    Vertebrate fossils are exceedingly rare compared with invertebrate (without a backbone) sea creatures. The vast proportion of the fossil record is invertebrate sea creatures, and plant material in the form of coal and oil. Vertebrate fossils are relatively rare and human fossils are even rarer.

    If there were, say, 10 million people at the time of the Flood and all their bodies were preserved and uniformly distributed throughout the 700 million cubic kilometres of fossil-bearing sedimentary rock layers, only one would be found in every 70 cubic kilometres of rock. Thus you would be unlikely to find even one human fossil.

    A global Flood beginning with the breaking up of the fountains of the great deep would tend to bury bottom-dwelling sea creatures first – many of these are immobile, or relatively so. They are also abundant and generally robust (for example, shellfish). As the waters rose to envelop the land, land creatures would be buried last. Also, water plants would tend to be buried before land-based swamp plants, which, in turn would be buried before upland plants.

    On the other hand, land animals, such as mammals and birds, being mobile (especially birds), could escape to higher ground and be the last to succumb. People would cling to rafts, logs etc. until the very end and then tend to bloat and float and be scavenged by fish, with the bones breaking down rather quickly, rather than being preserved. This would make human fossils from the Flood exceedingly rare.

    Further, the more mobile, intelligent animals would tend to survive the Flood longest and be buried last, so their remains would be vulnerable to erosion by the receding floodwaters at the end of the Flood and in the aftermath of the Flood. Hence their remains would tend to be destroyed. The intelligence factor could partly account for the apparent separation of dinosaurs and mammals such as cattle, for example.8

    Another factor is the sorting action of water. A coal seam at Yallourn in Victoria, Australia, has a 0.5 m thick layer of 50 % pollen. The only way such a layer of pollen could be obtained is through the sorting action of water in a massive watery catastrophe that gathered the plant material from a large area and deposited it in a basin in the Yallourn area.

    ‘Cope’s Rule’ describes the tendency of fossils (e.g. shellfish) to get bigger as you trace them upward through the geological strata. But why should evolution make things generally bigger? Indeed, living forms of fossils tend to be smaller than their fossil ancestors. A better explanation may be the sorting action of water.9

    See geologist Woodmorappe’s paper for an in-depth treatment of the fossil record of cephalopods (such as octopuses and squid) and how it concurs with Creation and the Flood.

    These are some factors that could account for the patterns seen in the fossil record, including the general absence of human fossils in Flood deposits. Most of the fossil record does not represent a history of life on Earth, but the order of burial during the Flood. We would expect a pattern with a global Flood, but not an entirely consistent pattern, and this is what we find in the geological strata.

    There are problems in reconstructing any historical event, but especially one that has no modern analogue. And such is the Flood. So we have problems imagining the precise sequence of events by which the Flood eroded and deposited material, creating fossils. It may well be that some enterprising creationist scientists will come up with a model of the Flood that will fully account for the fossil and rock sequences.

    Of interest in this regard is the TAB (Tectonically Associated Biological) provinces model of Woodmorappe. Dr Tasman Walker has suggested a model of the Flood that also seems to explain much of the data. The catastrophic plate tectonics model of Drs Austin, Baumgardner, and colleagues also looks interesting in explaining much of the fossil distribution (see Chapter 11). Other models are being developed which may also be helpful in explaining the evidence.13

    One can be confident that the evolutionary view of Earth history is wrong and the record in the rocks and fossils, including the distribution of human fossils, makes much more sense in the light of the Bible’s account of Creation, the Fall and the Flood.

    For more on creation visit www.answersingenesis.org. Their Q&A section deals with many issues like this one and they can answer and questions about science that you have. That will save me loads of time I don't have to explain everything. If you want to ask me a question I prefer to be emailed.

    [email protected]

  • nelly136
    nelly136

    tried that link it wouldnt work for me just got a couldnt be found
    nelly

  • Jason
    Jason

    Maybe you spelled it wrong. try again.

    www.answersingenesis.org

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    Jason,

    I've just read through this thread and want to make an observation. You've sounded very angry and defensive before anyone really has brought up a point to argue with you. I'm just curious as to what has gotten you so riled up. If you feel that this web-site is full of lies and BS, why not just go somewhere else? Let others live and speak their thoughts? I understand sometimes the language on this board is vile and some people CANNOT back their beliefs (they just want to argue for arguments sake) but please do not judge these people for those two reasons alone. I'm not saying you don't have smarts because you're just a newbie. But if you hang around long enough, you'll know what people are full of crap and what people actually have something substantial (and interesting) to say.

    You are probably getting bombarded with negative emails because you are coming into a community of people and bashing them before really knowing them. You don't see personalities and sarcasms in postings. You also don't know who to take seriously and who not to. If we came into your house and made derisive comments about your house, you'd probably get on the defensive as well. I could see almost anyone say, "If you don't like my house, why are you here?" But most of the people here WANT your observations and your viewpoint as long as you can back it up. Being polite in your postings and not sounding holier-than-thou might help ease the pain too.

    Just my 2 cents...

    Billygoat

  • Jason
    Jason

    Billygoat,

    Thanks for your input. But I didn't realize I was getting riled up.
    I opologize if I sounded angry but I was not in the least. maybe you're just reading it in an angry tone. I was a bit angry in a couple replies but only at people who do know how to be nice.

    And the reason I AM on this site is BECAUSE it is full of BS. There has to be some light in the darkness. Don't you agree?

    And believe me I am not judging these people. I don't know them. But I do know that they don't all know the truth. I am not here to address anyone personally. I wasn't implying that you or anyone else has to listen to me because you are all wrong and I am right. I am simply offering an alternative for those people who come onto this forum looking for truth and can't find it within the vast amout of rubbish. They don't HAVE to listen to me. But they can if they choose to.

    I wasn't actually bashing anyone either. I was being judged and bashed because I'm new and not many people want to give me a chance before deciding I don't know anything.

    And believe me, the last thing I believe myself to be is holier-than-thou. I am no better than anyone else. But that doesn't mean I don't know something that many others do not.

    See ya.

    Jason.

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    Jason,

    Okay, so you say you weren't angry and didn't bash. Even though that may not have been your intentions, that IS how it came across to me. I'm not saying everyone thinks like I do, but it MAY have come across that way to others. Thus that could be the explanation for the negative replys. Again, just as third party observer...your postings sound like you're a narcisstic a**hole. If that is not what you are then just consider being a little kinder in your postings. "Do you want the real truth or not?" is not necessarily the best way to post an article. I'm not talking about the content of your postings (that's all together a different issue) but the delivery. You get much farther with honey that with vinegar! ;)

    Billygoat

  • LDH
    LDH

    Mommy,

    Thanks for trying to come to my defense, but believe me--pregnancy hormones are not responsible for my attitude.

    I can't stand self-righteous pricks like Jason, who want to go where they aren't invited and spread their version of the truth.

    Now that he has *shared* some of his valuable teachings, you can see what a fool he is to believe he could come into this forum with all of the brilliant science lovers we have, and try to preach his six day shit.

    Sorry if I sound angry. It's just that as a JW I had about enough of pompous pricks pushing their uninvited beliefs on others.

    Lisa

  • willy_think
    willy_think

    jason

    But I do know that they don't all know the truth.

    i am one of these and i'm not alone, i think

    Thanks for the info. so even someone like budda who was not trying to be a false god can be made a false god by others. i think in this case it might not be held against the man who lived that life, not like a demon who trys to be a god, or a king of men like a ceasar who tells all he is a god.

    i'm sure you know Jesus is "a god" john 1.

    so there are two true gods.

    see that is the thing, when the NWT tells us in plaine language that jesus is a true leser god why does the WTB&T say that there is only one true god? should thay not say there is one true high god and one true lesser god? saying there is only one, thay are saying the son is not a true god and the bible tells us there is no way to jehovah but through the son to whom all things have been given (including us all). how do you think Jesus would like us calling him a false god? well i don't know what to make of it.

    well any way thanks for letting me know. i hope to read more of your thoughts.

    the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
  • Andee
    Andee

    Oh man, what a topic to place my first post.

    "people come to this forum looking for truth"

    Not me. It's for one to post questions and to get opinions. To be heard (er..read) and get feedback.

    Everything you have shared, Jason, is your opinion. All the geological information you shared are OPINIONS. If you believe it to be truth, that is your choice. I mean, YOU HAD to know the reaction for were going to get when you expounded you had "THE TRUTH" to a group of ex-witnesses.

    Just my lil ole opinion.

  • spider
    spider

    Jason
    I was told "The truth".I had "the truth".I believed "the Truth" for almost my entire life.Trouble is, it wasn't.
    Most here have had a similar experience.Forgive us if we are not in a hurry to be swept away by you're "truth".
    I think you need to qualify the term "truth" a little more. To a witness, having the truth is simply being in that religion.For every statement of belief there are a hundred others.You are a christian and are passionate in you're belief that you are right.Do you not believe that we were not equally as passionate.Belief that you are right does not make you so.
    Believing you have an all embracing truth and all others are misled is arrogant.It is something ex-witnesses are very sensitive to.This is the reason you have had a particularly cold reception here thus far.
    We spent a lot of time telling others that we had the answers - that everyone else was wrong.It is a humbling when you realize how misled you are.Once you make this mistake you tend to be a bit more open minded and accepting.
    Perhaps this experience has not occured to you yet.Perhaps the certainties have not yet fallen like like a castle into the dust.You may have it to come.
    It is traumatic at first.When the dust clears though you tend to see things with greater clarity.Stop feeling the superiority that living in a castles can bring.
    My advice would be to leave you're chalk and blackboard outside.Listen to different ideas,perspectives and beliefs without assuming that they are automatically wrong if they are not in accordance with you're own.
    Listen with respect.
    Jesus said we must be as a child.In what way?
    We all have something to contribute.We all have something to teach but first must come a willingness to listen.To put our truth above anothers is to make another person lower.This cannot be good.
    My comments are not "the truth".Just an opinion but I hope you give it due consideration before you pass it over.

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