Bizarre news story (page 6)

waiting

Bigboi,

In the original story on the thread a man was told to stop having sex and the women who allowed him to father 9 children by them were treated like victims. - bigboi

Wisconsin Supreme Court, which recently upheld an order that prohibits a "deadbeat" dad from having any more children while he's on probation.newspaper article

It's the same thing. - bigboi

You are stating that having sexual relations with another person is the same as producing a child.

You are wrong.

The Court did not prohibit the man from having sex as often as he wanted. The Court prohibited the man from producing more children during his probation time period.

Absolutely not the same thing.

waiting

Andee

Just A Thought,

I concur.

LDH,

Thanks for the welcome.

waiting

Hey Andee!

I would have welcomed you, honest! But I was too busy arguing about sex.

Go figure.............

Anyway, a belated Welcome to our Forum to you. I think you'll find a looooong thread entitled "Hello? Hello" within the last week (been going on for about a month) with a lot of new persons telling a little about themselves.

Please feel free to post to it, and also read about some of the rest of us?

Welcome.

waiting

bigboi

Waiting:

I'll grant that, technically they aren't the same. However, I still think it's equally appalling and ridiculous for a court to levy such a restriction on an individual. Prohibiting him from having children will in no way make him more able to care for the ones he has. That judge is a fool for setting such a dangerous precedent in the legal system.

JustAThought:

Again as I told LDH earlier, I don't believe that it takes 900 dollars a month to raise a child. One child cannot tie up that amount of resources on a regular basis. Everyone knows that household expenses fluctuate. I'm not saying it is cheap to raise a child, but no one child has 900-2000 dollars spent on it alone w/o special circumstances.

Ask anyone hear who couldn't use an extra 350 dollars every month coming thru. I don't think you'll hear too many here turn it down. It might not be a pitance to some to others it might be alot, that's highly subjective. I think cs shoukld be for the child. Adequate housing, food and clothing as welll as appropiate health insurance should be provided. It shouldn't be provided by just one parent though, both should be required to pay.

There is an inherent biological disproportion in the burden of bearing a child. It is much easier for a man to walk away from his responsibility for a child conceived than a woman. He merely has to become inaccessible to that woman. At the very least, a woman will have to finance, obtain, and endure an abortion. Perhaps this biological imbalance has much to do with the fact that she has more say in whether she will bear the child than does the father.

Of course, women can get pregnant, men can't. Yet, the fact remains that a woman can choose to have an abortion. Men don't have a choice whether they want the baby or not. If she chooses to have it, he's screwed. IMO that's a double standard.

In most of these cases, it is not a matter of the NCP's inability to pay, but, rather, the NCP's unwillingness to pay. For issues of child support, the court does not much concern itself with NCP's who cannot pay, but with NCP's who can pay, but choose not to.

I doubt if it's really that simple. There are all kinds of circumstances surrounding these kinds of cases. The question that should be asked is why won't a ncp pay if they are able too. You never know why they refuse to pay. Also, what does the ability to pay mean? What, that they just have a job? That they are a millionaire or what? I'll admit there are some scumbags out there who don't want to pay. However, just because a dude doesn't send some chick who had a kid for him a check doesn't mean he's a deadbeat. I know of many, many cases where guys are put on cs and told to pay arrearages even though they had been supporting the child all along. The child didn't live with them and they had no documentation so they got stuck. The system is biased, plain and simple.

"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

JustAThought

I don't believe that it takes 900 dollars a month to raise a child. One child cannot tie up that amount of resources on a regular basis.

And you base this on ...? I gave you figures. I am in the process of raising children.

Just think for a moment, instead of emotionally venting.

How much resource do YOU tie up on a regular basis? What expenses do you have which would be significantly lower if you were a child?

The system is biased, plain and simple.

You're right. The system is biased. The custodial parent usually ends up doing their part AND whatever part the NCP isn't willing to do.

JustAThought

Also, what does the ability to pay mean?

I've seen NCD's ask this question of the judge who is inquiring as to their lack of child support. For someone who would ask this question, it means, quite simply, that you have assets and/or income which will probably have to be garnisheed by around 17%.

alamb

I say "fire up the weed-eater"
signed,
me (of the waiting for child support from the good witness class)

waiting

Hey y'all,

If you were to total just these costs, you've already got a monthly tab of $900.00.

I agree totally, having raised 3 children. But that doesn't take into consideration the braces I had to have on the feet of my third child for 2 years (out of pocket - several thousand because sizes change so dramatically.) Speech therepy for my second child who decided to make up his own language (out of pocket - about a thousand). Music lessons for second child (who then went on to receive a BA in Music).

I used to just sigh when they'd smile - thank God they didn't inherit my side of the family teeth problems. No braces necessary. Of course, all three needed glasses (about $200 with exam every four years.)

Oh! And the time my genius second son overdosed on chocolate three friggin' days in a row - migrane headaches with "white spots" in eyes. Took him to family doctor. Just to be sure there was no tumor, had to go to nurosurgeon (sp?) to double check - like any good parent would do, and the resultant brain tests they have to do.

Did I fail to mention, I had health insurance, but none of the above expenses were covered? I had full custody of my children - real father hasn't even called them in 18 years to see if they're alive.

From real experience - it's almost impossible to calculate the money involved with kids. $900 will cover in some months - won't touch it in others. Oh, and the summer that my second son grew 6 inches - necessitating a whole new wardrobe (absolutely everything), then his knees locked up from the quick growth. Tests, physical therepy, bone surgeons..........

Ahhhhhh, those were the years.

Has anybody mentioned helping kids get their first car? School books (that change and can't be bought used), college? Btw, all my kids had part time jobs from 13 up, honor roll students, and I worked full time, never had any assistance except my second husband's.

"I wouldn't take a million dollars for my child. And I wouldn't give a plug nickel for another one." Author Unknown - but had to be a parent.

Only people who've actually had the delightful experience of raising a child to full adulthood can relate the monitary expense involved, imho.

waiting

bigboi

Just:

I 'm not being emotional at all. Please don't start to insinuate things about me personally. I'm not going to take part in character assasinations.

Just because you gave me figures doesn't mean they are correct. I live in an apartment w a roomamate. We might consume 400 dollars worth of food a month. I'm talking about 2 grown men. There is no way in hell a twelve yr old can consume that much food on their indiidual. Utilities and such are highly subjective. Costs vary according to season etc... and it can be controlled. Insurance and medical expenses should of course be split evenly between both parents. Since when do kids pay rent? A minor imo can't be expected to pay rent so the full amount doesn't count. However, I do admit that the ncp should have a share in housing his/her child. So something should be paid, no doubt.

ONE....

bigboi

"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

larc

bigboi,

I just shake my head when I read your cost estimates on kids. Having raised three children, I know the figures supplied by LDH for a good life style or the very modest figure of 900 per month are reasonable.

Let me ask you a couple of questions. How much do you spend a month on food. If you have teenage children you will spend more than that per child. How much do you spend on clothing. All through childhood you will spend much more than that because you will have to buy all new clothes at least once a year because they are growing so fast. How much does your housing cost. If you have kids, you will have to get a bigger place which will cost more. How much more do you figure? Do you plan to help pay for their college. If so, how much per month will you have to save for that. When my grand daugher turned 7, I began putting 50 dollars a month in a college fund. When she goes to college that will cover only one year's tuition at a state college. It will not cover books or room and board. Bigboi, get real.

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