Bizarre news story (page 3)

LDH

Having gone through this situation personally, and never having been on PA, I'll share my experience and let it go from there.

PLH you said something about the state not bringing charges if the woman wasn't on welfare. This used to be true in every state. (Think about it; We won't help you until you are desparate.) However, in 1990 there was a landmark case in New York (where I'm from) where a woman was bringing a CS case against the father, who was a very highly placed state employee.

The woman WAS on CS, although the father made in excess of $150,000. He was paying her an amount equal to welfare payments. Her attorney brought pleadings for relief before the court, on the grounds of lifestyle. He argued that simply because the mother and father weren't living together, was no reason for the child to live at the welfare level when the father was capable of providing much more.

The court agreed with him, and that is how New York State ended up changing their CS rules. Now, it's an automatic 17% for one child, 24% for two children.

Now you think about that--if you are on welfare, shouldn't the non-custodial parent pay to maintain that childs lifestyle? Hell yes. That child deserves piano lessons, football camp and whatever else.

The woman now receives in excess of $20,000 in CS annually, which freed her up to go back to school, get an education and a career.

I have the clipping if anyone is interested, or has a CS case that they feel they need more money out of non-custodial parent. I used the article in my own case, where my daughter's father is a physician, and ended up with the judge automatically garnishing (which NY does PERIOD as soon as you case is in fam. court) his paycheck.

I heard the tickler for this news item, they said "Landmark decision on deadbeat dad!" I was kind of disappointed to find out he wasn't sterilized.

BigBoi I totally agree with you. My grandmother used to say "If you lay down with a dog you'll wake up with puppies." But in the majority of these situations, the women are the custodial parent. Our society is going to pay for these kids one way or another. Why not help the custodial parent?

Lisa

bigboi

Lisa:

I'm not talking about women who are really in need or may have become pregnant unexpectedly. I'm talking about men and women who continually have children, but can't take care of them. I think aid should be given to the parent who has custody, no doubt. However, I disagree with the bouble standard that is imposed upon men but not women. Why should that guy be strerilized because some woman decided to have children for him that he could not support? Why is he given the reprimand to "keep it in your pants" and the women are treated like victims? That's all I'm saying.

ONE...

bigboi

"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

kenyata

To Boozerunner,

I hear you, we can only go by the info from the article. I would've sentenced him to find a decent job, if he doesn't have one, to where he could take care of his kids and have enough money to live off of to. And believe me, I know that there is a nationwide effort to collect cs from all those ncp's but what are the courts doing about it? I know several ncp's whose checks are being garnished and most of the arguments I hear are, the court ordered me to pay to much and now I don't have enough to pay my own bills. That's what makes the ncp's quit or find a way to get fired so that they don't have to pay. The judges should think about that. They aren't the ones who's paychecks are being snatched. Maybe if they were in the same boat, they'd sentence differently. And of course the judge, majority of the time, isn't going to ask the cp for proof of their income, though its supposed to be calculated using both.

peaceloveharmony

lisa,

thanks for sharing info on that case. every parent has the ability to file pro se motions, on or off of PA or welfare. but if not on PA, the agency does not have to attend the hearing, but will if either parent requests our attendence in writing or if we are subpeaona'd. and again, i'm only talking about minnesota here, which does have standard guidelines for determining child support in place too.

one thing that makes collecting support here so difficult is that even though the federal gov't has laws on the books regarding the handling of support, each state has been mandated to set up their own collections offices. in turn, most states have then delegated that responsibility to the counties. makes for a mess when dealing with cases outside of your state. since i work on a unit that deals with other state agencies, i know the headaches involved in trying to collect from non-cooperative NCP's outstate. this system is certainly flawed and certainly needs work. and of course there will always be parents that will do anything to get out of paying. and of course there will always be children born out of the stupidity of their parents actions. i don't think being court ordered to stop reproducing is going to fix anything, in the long run anyway. more education, more programs, more information is the way to go, IMO.

it's important to remember that the federal gov't enacted the child support laws to HELP CHILDREN. but to not govern how often we reproduce.

okay, i have to get back to work now...

love
harmony

"If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?"
..........Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet (1792-1822)

bigboi

Kenyata:

I feel what you're saying. Take the experience LDH just posted. Now if you were paying 25% to Uncle Sam. Then you had another 10% coming out for retirement and insurance that's already more than a third of your pay. Then add on the additional 17% for a kid and that's like half your pay. A lot of women abuse this. I heard that it's supposed to be changing, but women didn't have to count it as part of their income coming in for taxes, but it still counted as earned income on the father's taxes. Not to sure about that one, but that's what I've heard. IMO, a ncp shouldn't have to give up a portion of their income to help support the child and the parent. It's child support, not child and parent support.

ONE....

bigboi

"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

peaceloveharmony

okay, one more thing...about wage garnishment, or income withholding and child support.

there are guidelines and limits as to how much child support can be taken from the NCP's check. state agencies want the NCPs to pay and do not want to cause them to run and become non-paying cases. so there are limits in place as to how much can be collected from an NCP's paycheck, so he can continue to live and pay his support. some NCPs are just complete assholes and have no desire to ever pay and they are the ones that run from job to job, trying to stay ahead of the agency. minnesota tries to educate NCPs and offers many programs for fathers who maybe unable to pay but are willing. i'm sure most other states do this too.

"If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?"
..........Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet (1792-1822)

peaceloveharmony

okay okay, just a bit more from me.

i'm posting some links so everyone who would care to can see how child support works in your own state.

federal office of child support enforcement home page:
. http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/cse/

scroll to bottom of this page to find the state you live in:
. http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/cse/extinf.htm#exta

"If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?"
..........Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet (1792-1822)

kenyata

To bigboi,

This is in regards to your comment to Lisa. Do you feel that all females that become pregnant, knowing that the daddy won't or can't take care of them and they know they don't have any money either, should automatically have their babies killed? If I'm misunderstanding you, please correct me. If 2 people chose not to use anything and they get pregnant, take care of your responsility anyways. If you have to work at Burger King, McDonald's or pick up pop and beer cans, handle your business. There was no one in the room that told you not to use anything, you knew damned well what could happen. Deal with it.

kenyata

To peaceloveharmony,

Yes there is supposed to be a limit as to how much the courts can with hold. And sometimes the courts do get ridiculous and set an amount that's low but set the arrears high. Usually, if the cs is low and the ncp owes arrears, they'll set the arrears high. If the cs is high, they'll set the arrears low. Overtime, since its not promised to you, isn't supposed to be counted, but many times it is. Where I'm from, Buffalo,NY, its 17% for 1, 25% for 2, 29% for 3, 31% for 4 and no more than 35% for 5 or more kids. The courts do try to be slick and then the ncp's end up dragging the cp's back to court. Many times, the judge will tell the ncp, depending on if they get paid weekly or biweekly. Come back after you have 2 checks and lets see what your check looks like and we'll make the changes then. I feel, you go off of what my employer says I make and after taxes, cs and all come out, if I don't have enough to pay my bills, rent, gas,electric, food, bus card or gas, my essential items, its getting lowered.

kenyata

To LDH,

Now if the father was grossing over $150,000 a year, and she was getting the same amount that welfare would give a child, that's her fault cause she didn't do her research and get what her kid deserves. Now its fine for her, of course to go back to school and get her education so that she can get a better job with better pay but while she's going to school, does she have any income of her own or is she living off of her kids money? With $20,000 a year, thats a little over $1600 a month, she can live off that. That's an amount that someone would gross before taxes. There's nothing wrong with helping out the custodial parent but make sure the amount is fair, and not out of anger and greedyness.

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