by FreedomFrog 88 Replies latest jw friends
They don't agree on who is right, but they agree on who is wrong.
Not "who" is wrong. "What" is wrong. The JW's as a people are just people. It's some of their doctrines that are wrong.
Which ones?
Forbidding birthday celebrations.
Blood.
Do it our way or we'll DF you.
We alone speak for God.
We're only "apostates" because the Watchtower chose to label us.
Dave
Truth: the state or quality of being true
Error: a departure from the truth in a statement or in a belief
Err: to make a mistake, to be wrong
Under dictionary definitions ?the truth? cannot contain ?errors?; truth and error are incompatible. This would suggest that truth also means infallible. If something described as ?the truth? yesterday is acknowledged as error today, was it ever ?truth?? By the same token, if ?the truth? is what is being taught today, does that mean it will never be considered as ?error? in the future?
If we are not very careful, the concept of truth could become pretty meaningless, and just about anyone could claim to be in ?the truth?. I need to understand exactly what is meant by people who claim to be in ?the truth?. Rightly or wrongly, my own feeling is that ?truth? must be absolute and unchanging. When Jesus said ?I am the way, the truth and the life...? I believe he meant an unchanging, eternal truth. What is the Watchtower?s definition of ?the truth??
Many, if not all religions, speak in the name of the truth, based on their understanding of the Bible, yet they all disagree with each other. It seems the Bible can be interpreted in different ways by imperfect humans. And what happens when we discover that ?the truth? contains many ?departures from the truth? or ?errors?? Does this allow the possibility that such claims about ?the truth? were false or mistaken? Can any religion really claim to have a monopoly on ?truth??
I think it is just as hard to prove who is wrong as it is to prove who is right.
Why can't we all just say that we don't know whether the Witnesses have the truth or not? (now that is the "truth"!)
Why do apostates need to be so definite?
Why do they have to provide theories and constructs to explain away their former associates' beliefs in Jehovah's Witness fashion?
You are all decending into the depths of Witness essentialism!!!
sbf
what does the word "apostates" mean to you? I mean what would be your definition?
Would a .... let's say a Catholic (who has never been a JW) that doesn't agree with the JW's be an apostate? Or maybe a Jew? Or anyone that doesn't believe in any of other religions that disagrees with JW's? Are they an apostate?
I ask this because you claim to not being an "apostate" but if you were a JW and now you're thinking that they may or may not be right...you, by THEIR definition are an apostate.
I am a person who does not know whether Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth.
You're NOT allowed to even think this as a JW. I did and I started asking questions to some of the elders and my questions ARE sincere and I was accused right then and there that I was developing an "apostate" thinking. That's what got me to think even more...WHY can't I ask questions? I am able to explain why and how I came to my conclusions. If I'm wrong...I'm willing to look at it.
So just saying that you don't know whether the JW's have the truth...if you were baptized...you've developed "apostate" thinking.
As a JW...you have to agree with everything and take it all under faith and NOT even wonder if they are right or wrong...or you're an "apostate" (by their definition).
FF
slimboyfat,
You rarely if ever reply to people who ask you specifically to name the things that you think JWs have right. That's what I find trollish. Of course you can't give a specific example of a real issue to discuss, because then you'll see a hundred different responses from the posters here and your notion of "apostate worldview" will be shown for what it is.
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Freedom Frog,
This relates to the original topic of this thread (sorry for digressing): Saying "JWs have it right" means very little unless we focus on the specific doctrines and analyse our assumptions.
Having said that, what are the WTS views that still sound convincing to you? Or maybe it's more emotional than factual/logical?
Pole
we can only be sure the JWs do not have the truth, because everytime they announce new light, that is an admission that they are wrong. Any one of their unfulfilled predictions PROVES they are wrong. It is easy to prove people wrong Biblically wrong by their fruits Matthew Ch 7.
Why don't you discuss?
Slim, you might as well think it is possible that there is a toothfairy if you think that organization might by some f**ked up twist of logic have the 'truth' and the only channel of redemption of humankind. Would you bank your life on the toothfairy? If they might have the 'truth' you are saying that it's possible that God is insane and wants to choose only certain deluded morons at random that have no interest in real 'truth' to have the 'truth'. Any reasonable person can see this is crazy and an insult to the true God (if there is one) if they do enough research. Maybe you haven't.
Have you read "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom" yet?
GBL
I think it is just as hard to prove who is wrong as it is to prove who is right.
1 + 1 = 5
That's wrong. It's not a matter of opinion, it's simply wrong.
That woman's hair is too long.
That's an opinion and it isn't really open to debate because it's a personal opinion.
JWs doctrines fall into both categories, as do all religions'. The ones that fall into the first category can be discussed and debated and you really can prove some of them wrong. It doesn't mean that they will accept the proof, but it's there.
Would you like to discuss one of those doctrines? Pick one. If you can prove any of them wrong, then you've proven they don't have "The Truth".
Dave
Men make gods of wood and stone, but the true god they've not known
Now Ive got that song stuck in my head
Why can't we all just say that we don't know whether the Witnesses have the truth or not? (now that is the "truth"!)
Ok...let's say that...now, I want to be a JW...will they let me feel this way?
I don't agree with the blood issue that they teach...am I able to say that without being rejected?
I'm not going to "just accept" it...I want to know WHY. And if you tell me I can't ask it...then that's where the "controlling" part comes in.
