The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen (page 16)

Viviane

JD, you're demonstrating that you are an excellent example of a Christian. Well done, sir.

Vidiot

Simon - "...refusing to give funds or tax breaks to groups that discriminate."

It ain't splashy and exiting, but odds are it's probably the best way of dealing with them.

If it happens and they try playing the persecution card, they just end up looking even more stupid.

Simon

Yes, and it has the added bonus of highlighting exactly where there priorities lie.

Jonathan Drake

JD, you're demonstrating that you are an excellent example of a Christian. Well done, sir.

I hope so, thank you.

Seeing as how typically Christian areas are where things like ticket sales for 50 Shades are through the roof, they are more poor, less educated, less diverse and have less civil rights protections, it seems their priorities are to pretend they are awesome, be pretentious and hypocritical without any reason to do so.

myelaine

dear JD...

you said, "This is true. There is a huge cultural chasm filled with old English and poor verbiage. Elsewhere on these forums I've voiced my opinion that religion should be outlawed. I honestly believe this. Outlaw all religion, and no man will be able to rise up and inspire the crazy people to follow him. We don't have to outlaw the books IMO, just the organizations.

Option 2, outlaw the books too. If God is really there, he won't let this happen amd we can jump start this "end times" deal. But if nothing happens? We can move on in unity and laugh at our naïveté."...

What you are saying is absurd...(1) the fact that there is a breakdown in the unity of belief (religion) is a major reason for the "crazy people" gaining traction...people have itching ears and they want to follow someone who speaks things that resonate with their own ideas...as far fallen as they my be.

(2) a major reason for "crazy" beliefs is the intentional turning away from the foundational scripture...it doesn't mean anything, it isn't "the gospel truth". With the rise of liberal theologians, the bible is merely a jumping off point then it's a kind of free for all...the movement even has a name, it's called "seeker friendly"...

ie: now, with freedom from the self imposed constrains of religion, there are a whole bunch of mini power brokers all vying for a piece of the protestant pie. there's a name for that too it's called "chaos of the cults".

love michelle

p.s. in your response via PM you completely missed the thrust of my argument as you seem to have in this thread as well.

Jonathan Drake

@myelaine

i really don't think I missed the point of your post. I made a blanket statement in aggravation about Christians condemning someone who irritates them to hell. Firstly, this is only inaccurate because there does exist a minority of Christians who wouldn't. Secondly, this was the entire thrust of your response, that you and your prayer group wouldn't do such a thing. I apologized because I should not have made a blanket statement like that, and I hold to that apology.

Further, if religion were outlawed then no one person or group would ever be allowed to be vying for power- because doing so is attempting to make a religion. Once the precedent was established that the government would come down on the religions leader and followers with an iron hammer, there would be no red tape to go through before subduing and imprisoning any who attempt to do this immediately.

One way or another, by force or, as others have stated here, just by time- religion will soon not exist. It's inevitable. Sam Harris says something in the earlier posted debate that I actually agree with. He defines extemeism as anything that negatively effects society, such as creationists teaching children evolution isn't true when it undeniably is true. This has a negative effect on society, and I agree. The harmful effects of religion are not all so direct as to kill people. They enslave minds and bind people to the will and desire of a MAN and HIS twisted idea of what the bible or Quran teaches.

In this way, religions either are killing people through doctrines that tell them to kill or otherwise die (blood doctrine), or they are robbing people of their potential by making them deny reality in various ways, which not only robs that person but also the world. I.e., how many Alber Einsteins have been lost to doctrines against higher education or restrictions against scientific pursuits because of brainwashed creationsism that would otherwise have made amazing discoveries and launched us into a better future?

religion, and the men in charge of them are vile and evil organizations that deserve to be repaid for all of their terrible deeds, policies and committed atrocities. The sooner people can see that God and religion are not mutually exclusive (or even in any way connected other than using God to be evil) the better off we all will be.

Simon

You have such a black and white / perfectionist view of the world and can't see the impossibility of what you suggest.

if religion were outlawed then no one person or group would ever be allowed to be vying for power- because doing so is attempting to make a religion

Who defines what is and isn't "religion"?

If you think you can stop people vying for power by saying "OK, please stop vying for power" then I suggest you go and talk to everyone in the middle east.

OrphanCrow

One way or another, by force or, as others have stated here, just by time- religion will soon not exist. It's inevitable.

Or maybe, JD, we will learn to re-define 'religion' and understand it for what it really is - a vital part of political movements and political power structures. The template of 'religious' versus 'secular' has to disappear.

Politics and religion is one and the same - there needs to be an 'enlightened' view, if you will, as to what 'religion' really is. A political tool for government regimes.

StrongHaiku

I like to believe that "religion" will eventually be redefined as what it is; stories and metaphors from people who knew very little about nature and the cosmos. Humans are storytellers and we will continue to tell stories in word and art. But, I like to believe that modernity will continue to move "religion" to the confines of storytelling and strip off its unchallenged authority.

I dearly hope that "religion" will lose it's privileged status and that faith will stop being a virtue. Otherwise, in a thousand years we'll be fighting "holy" wars on who shot first, "Han Solo or Greedo"...

But, then again, I could be wrong... (said by no one ever in the GB)

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

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