One weekend he asked daughter if she wanted to stop with him an extra day every week. She said No thankyou. He said 'well its not your decision, its mine, and im going to have you an extra day a week'.
WTF?!?!?
What am I so scared of?
by katiekitten 69 Replies latest jw friends
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Elsewhere
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katiekitten
Some attempt by Kate to help him understand the effect on his daughter ought to at least be considered shouldn't it?
I have already discussed several times with him the effect his behaviour is having on her.
At first I didnt want to say daughter was crying at the prospect of going to him, because, well I cant imagine a more hurtful thing than being told your own child doesnt want to see you. So I was trying to say sometimes she got a bit upset. He said I was wrong, and that she loved going to him. So in the end I had to say 'look she cries all the time about X, Y and Z'. He said well you would be suprised at some of the things she says about you (I wasnt told what those things were).
I said could he not see his way to modifying a bit over the thumb sucking because it wasnt like she was being naughty, it was just something he didnt like, and it was beginning to cause more upset than the opriginal problem. He said it was a matter of principle and he would not modify anything. He said there was no room for negotiation on matters of principle, and that she would thank him later on in life.
I asked him if he could defer some issues until she was older, as she didnt seem to be responding at present (i.e. biting her nails). Again - NO - its a matter of principle - theres no room for negotiation.
I asked him if he would take her feelings into account, not mine. He said he was doing, and as a parent it was his job to make hard choices that would be right in the long run. She is only 7 and therefore should not be able to dictate to him how he choosees to parent her.
He NEVER listens to anything I say, as he thinks its all emotional rhetoric. His job is to MAKE her do (what he considers to be) the RIGHT thing whether it causes a massive amount of upset or not. Because she will thank him for it in the long run.
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katiekitten
One weekend he asked daughter if she wanted to stop with him an extra day every week. She said No thankyou. He said 'well its not your decision, its mine, and im going to have you an extra day a week'.
WTF?!?!?This really upset me because (1) he shouldnt have asked her and (2) he shouldnt have asked her only imagining he was going to get the answer he wanted, and (3) having asked her he should have at least respected her opinion, or what was the point in asking in the first place.
She felt so strongly about it she phoned him up when she got home to tell him again that she didnt want to go to him for an extra day. I told her I would tell him, but she said "its not your job to fight my battles for my mummy". WTF!!! I said thats exactly whose job it is - youre only 7. You cant be expected to stand up to an adult.
Anyway she insisted on phoning him, and left him a really polite mature message on his ansa phone saying "I love you and I like things as they are and I dont really want to come another day a week, but I suppose I will if I have to". It choked me.
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confusedjw
Well that is certainly some more detail and it sounds like you have been taking the right steps in this situation although as you have confessed it makes your shake to deal with him. That has to be hard.
It is true that sometimes as a parent you do need to stand on principle and the child will thank you later for it.
It is also true that parents can bully or be harsh and use the above as a cover.
I'm sure Kate will continue to make the best choices for her child.
Perhaps all of us have situations in mind as we comment on this matter to Kate. I work with a very KIND and loving man who is as soft a goo and his daughter (15) is avoiding him with the approval of his mother. She has allowed his daughter to home school and virtually isolate herself from the world, even now claiming that his parents are abusive. Why? Because they made the daughter feel badly. How? At dinner one night they discover that she doesn't even know her multiplication tables and said "Sweetie you really don't want to fall behind in math." (Home schooling isn't working well as you can see.) So in this case ANY level of discomfort and the child retreats and mother defends. They have cut off the grandparents. I am familar with all parties in this case so the picture is pretty clear and the child is not being helped. So this child spends her days playing video games and writting fantasy stories. The poor guy is beside himself.
(By the way, why do you think your daughter still sucks her thumb? Just a habit or does this indicate something? This is a genuine question as I have no idea - I didn't and my kids didn't. Is this pretty common at this age?)
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doofdaddy
I appreciate your level response CJW but if you read Katies response.....
I am over fathers not taking responsibility for raising their kids (just making rules is not effective parenting), esp not communicating with the mother. When I was new at my job, I would listen to these guys, as thet come across so measured and rational. Just wasting my time mostly. I would try to be gentle but it just doesn't work.
What he sees as good disciplined parenting, well Katie answers this. He hasn't worked through his issue with his parents years ago ( plus a host of others). Here I go making excuses for him. I reckon he needs to truly grow up.
All are suffering at the moment, especially the little girl.
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katiekitten
Confused, I really appreciate you comments. And I can see there are some terrible situations where kids are allowed to avoid any situation that causes them mild discomfort. You are right, it doesnt help them at all, it just makes them think they can avoid every situation in life they dont like.
And also I think its totally wrong for one parent to side against the other. My own mum made me hate my dad when I was a teenager by her attitude towards the marriage. I realised he wasnt a bad bloke eventually, but it took me a good 10 years or so to develop a healthy relationship with him.
I hope I dont do that to my daughter, because id rather she had the tools to deal with situations, instead of only knowing how to avoid things. She knows she has to go to her daddys. I just think we have reached the point where she doesnt have to go any more than she currently does. I try hard not to slag him off infront of her, and im always telling her how much he loves her.
Im not sure about the thumb sucking. She had a dummy for a long time, and he made her get rid of it, so she resorted to sucking her thumb then, because it helps her get to sleep. She has no emotional issues, or behaviour issues. She is a bit ahead of herself academically (I never push her in that, she just happens to be quite bright). She has an excellent vocabulary and is very conversational with adults. She used to have fluent conversations with her dummy in her mouth and use long words like 'probably' and 'unbelievable'. I didnt care two hoots about the dummy, because her dad had started smoking when he left me, and I thought why shouldnt she have oral comfort if adults are allowed oral comfort that gives you cancer? So I just let her have it. When he forbade her thats when the thumb sucking started. Personally I would have left her to quit the dummy in her own time, because its not like she was still going to have it when she was 10 is it? She would have got embarrased about it in her own time. And no, it didnt curb her conversational ability. And no it wasnt making her teeth buck out (my dentist told me). And no it wasnt unhygenic. I just cant see what the fuss is about. She only had it at night. It didnt hurt anyone. But it caused weeks of tears when he banned it.
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confusedjw
Well this still leaves the question of "What are you so scared of?"Did he intimidate you while married to him?
Does he come across like a father figure to you?
Are you secretly still in love with him?
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katiekitten
Well this still leaves the question of "What are you so scared of?"
Yes! Back to the original topic.
What am I scared of?
No he never intimidated me, or shouted or hit or bullied. He was always in emotional control, and I always thought he was 'better' than me somehow - more respectable, more 'nice', more middle of the road, middle class.
Ive always been - well - loud, controversial, alternative. Ive always been embarrased of who I am in 'nice' company - like im a naughty child trying to be on my best behaviour. And somehow I always manage to say or do something stupid and show myself up.
My current partner says im a loose cannon, he never knows what im going to do next - although in truth I have got just as sophisticated manners as anyone else - I can fit in as well at an opera as I can in a mosh pit. I rarely actually do anything socially embarrasing, but I dont really inspire people with 100% confidence that I wont.
So I always feel bad compared to him. Hes so respectable, hes a safe, hes predictable. Hes the kind of man you would take home to your mother. Im the kind of woman you would take home to your mother if your mother happened to be an artist or a bit batty.
Im scared of offending his 'niceness' with my 'loose cannonness'. If that makes sense.
Thanks for letting me get this out - it helps get it clear in my mind, because I have never thought about it this deeply before.
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talesin
Katie,
In regards to your question.
Did you feel inadequate when you were with hubby? Like he was always criticizing you? That may be why you are so shaky about confronting him. Remember, please, that YOU are the one who has taken on the responsibility for parenting this child for six years. Oh, his life was not settled so he was not able to be a full time parent for so long? Well, who did it? You! So, he has 'his' life in order now, so now he wants more control. Well, it is good that he now has more time (and has a wife to do the 'mothering' (?) does your daughter spend time with him, or does the step-mom care for her when she is there?), but that doesn't mean that now he can just step in and everything will be perfect. HELLO! It sounds like you have taken on his criticisms as real, that they are valid, AND THEY ARE NOT. You need to realize that he has no authority on which to judge you, and you are just as good and smart as he is. His equal. Not only that, you have been there 24-7 for the past number of years and been the parent ... that is the reality of this situation.
I will be beside you when you speak with him. :D Don't be askeered, we will do it together!
Confused,
I hear where you are coming from. He has not abandoned his child, as many do. It sounds like he is mixing power and control issues into his relationship with his daughter, though. After all, he was a 'once a month' parent for a long time, and 99% of the parenting fell to Katie, and if his daughter is having issues with thumb-sucking and perhaps security, his punitive methods will only cause further harm at this point ... what she needs now is reassurance and unconditional acceptance. He should be promoting communication, not conflict. The little 6 YO also must deal with a new step-mommy and family. hmmm,,, it's time for the adults to resolve their conflicts in favour of the child.
tal
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LittleToe
I don't know why such an issue is being made of thumb-sucking. Many do it, and as I recall I was still doing it to get to sleep until my early teens. There was a thread here, someplace about it, a couple of years back. She's in fairly good company
Ive always been - well - loud, controversial, alternative. Ive always been embarrased of who I am in 'nice' company - like im a naughty child trying to be on my best behaviour. And somehow I always manage to say or do something stupid and show myself up.
This comment was telling. Why give a flying feck what anyone thinks of ya??
You're a young professional woman with a b/f, daughter, friends, home and career. By most peoples indicators that makes you a success. If someone feels they can look down their nose at you just throw a few of your achievements in their face!!! Give 'em hell!
Btw, Doctors, Teachers, Managers and Ministers of Religion were always deemed "Middle Class", in British society. It's not the wage that sets it, but your role/profession.
I'm sorry to say it, but your ex sounds a bit of a snob (even if it's unintentional). That's one attitude that cuts across class distinctions. It's often worse in those who have entered the Middle Class in the last couple of generations. Most of the Upper Classes don't give a fig (of course they're mostly batty ).