Watchtower Gives Up Explaining 607 BCE Date!

by VM44 239 Replies latest watchtower bible

Hellrider

Yeah,who are the "celebrated WT Scholars". And what`s more: You have been attacking the apostates and secular history, because "they can`t make up their mind about which year the temple fell" (as if it had any significance), and at the same time boasting about your "complete Babylonian chronology". So I asked you before, and I`ll ask again: WHERE IS IT! Where is your "complete Babylonian chronology"? Produce it, please, lengths of reigns and all.
There is secular evidence for 607 as you well know for it is based upon the Fall of Babylon and the Return, both these events have testimony from secular sources. the seventy years finds agreement with Josephus, a secular historian and the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 is confirmed biblically and again by Josephus. The foundation of 607 and its calculation is rock solid.
You still don`t understand. That the 70 years would have to relate to the destruction of the Temple, is only required within your JW-theology, which is a "theology" (not really) that even in its foundation is based on making prophecies about when Armageddon will come. But that has nothing to do with the Bible, or the relevant Bible-passages concerning this issue. To any normal person, it is easy to see that the 70 years relate to the period of Babylonian control and power over Judeah. But that would be impossible for you to understand.
hideme

Wow ...what a thread!
A few weeks ago (that's how it all started for me) I found out about the UN affair. Then I wondered: what else could be wrong??
Because we're studying the book Daniels Prophecy I wondered in what way the "worldly history" would DISAGREE with the BIBLE. The WTBTS always makes it look like that, and I wanted to prove it myself, this time.
So I made a large timetable , covering over 100 years.(I hadn't read anything about that subject by then!!)
Above the line I put every date and chronology according to WTBTS, and under the line the "worldly history"chronology.
And guess what?
The so-called worldly history IS NOT in disagreement with the BIBLE! In fact - it's more logical than the WTBTS chronology.
WTBTS has found some really strange ways in proving things, like: the third year of Jojachim was in fact the third year "under" Nebuchadnezar. (How do they know that?! The bible doesn't say so!)
I was completely surprised - and no one told me before that 607 wasn't the "worldly"date for the destroying of Jerusalem...so I found out myself! No bad influence that told me so!
For me, the following is imortant: the bible doesn't mention any calendar dates. Only dates related to other dates. So no one can prove anything at all. BUT: that means WTBTS can't prove 587 B.C to be wrong, either - because it is according to the bible.
By the way: Notice the mistake in Daniels book:on page 63 it says Nebuchadnezar started to reign in 624 B.C. On page 64 it says his 4th year was 620 B.C. (because the Babylonians didn't count the first year -that will be okay)
In his 19th year Neb. destroyed Jerusalem. (2.Kings 25 8-10)
If 620 B.C. was his 4th year...what would be his 19th year then??? Definitely not 607 B.C.!
Forgive me any bad translation- I am not english speaking.
scholar

Hellrider
Celebrated WT scholars are not in the business of advocating any Babylonian chronology or any list of regnal years for the currently known Babylonian monarchs or kings. That is the businessof other scholars. Such a project is fraught with danger because biblical chronology proves that there is a twenty year gap when the two chronologies are compared.
The seventy years mentioned in the Bible in connection with Jerusalem, its people and the land of Judah are not limited to a period of Babylonian domination or servitude as the Jonsson hypothesis attempts to argue. The evidence is simply not there because the relevant texts clearly refer to a period of servitude-exile and desolation.
scholar JW
scholar

Jeffro
Yes you have made a tabulation that from your interpretation harmonizes the biblical and secular data and I have commended you for your courageous effort. But your chronology is plainly wrong as it misapplies the seventy year period and does not account for the twenty year gap but if it works for you then that is fine with me.
No, Jeremiah, Ezra, Zechariah and Daniel all in concert refer to aperiod of seventy years marked by servitude-exile--desolation. By emphasizing only one aspect such as servitude is dishonest and is playing false with scripture.
WT chronology is simple so that all can understand it, it is practical because it builds faith in the fulfillment of prophecy and gives certainty not ambiguity so characteristic of all other alternative chronologies.
The three texts that you refer do not support your position but simply affirm that Babylon would be overthrown by Cyrus which occurred in 539 and wouls continue to be desolate throughout history.Such an event was necessary for the seventy years to be fulfilled with the Return of the Exiles under Cyrus in 537 BCE.
scholar JW
City Fan

Celebrated WT scholars are not in the business of advocating any Babylonian chronology or any list of regnal years for the currently known Babylonian monarchs or kings

Scholar, please tell us how 'celebrated Watchtower scholars' calculate 539 for the fall of Babylon assuming they accept astronomical cuneiform text Strm Kambys400 as dating year 7 of Cambyses to 523/522 BC.
z

scholar

I was never JWS but I know one who sound just like you

I show him all the proof in the world but no luck he will stand

By the WT publications.

I was born Jewish (now I’m totally non believer all is just big money making and deceiving the one who follow them) and I grow up in Israel my first languish is Hebrew I study the Bible

All my life in Hebrew one day he give me the so called NWT and

I looked and read it and boy I could not believed this is the Bible

To me this is misleading the one who follow this publication as

Absolutely not what the Bible really say the scripts has change

To suit them. You said you are Hebrew scholar I don’t think so

You don’t answer question you avoid them and you go on and on

With no answer I like to see you translate to me a passage from the OT just for my curiosity if you know Hebrew

Sry if I have spelling or grammar but I’m trying lol
Hellrider

Scholar, please tell us how 'celebrated Watchtower scholars' calculate 539 for the fall of Babylon assuming they accept astronomical cuneiform text Strm Kambys400 as dating year 7 of Cambyses to 523/522 BC.
Not even the movement of the stars are important...even though their movements and positions thru history can be determined right down to detail... Jehovah can disrupt the movement of these stars, don`t you know? (after all, he lives on one of them: "The constellation of the seven stars forming the Pleiades appears to be the crowning center around which the known systems of the planets revolve even as our sun's planets obey the sun and travel in their respective orbits. It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of that group is the dwelling-place of Jehovah and the place of the highest heavens;.. The constellation of the Pleiades is a small one compared with others which scientific instruments disclose to the wondering eyes of man. But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared with the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God." {RECO 14. 1928})
Narkissos

z,
You are beating a dead horse. Scholar has already admitted he doesn't know Hebrew (and doesn't care to learn).
Jeffro

Yes you have made a tabulation that from your interpretation harmonizes the biblical and secular data and I have commended you for your courageous effort. But your chronology is plainly wrong as it misapplies the seventy year period and does not account for the twenty year gap but if it works for you then that is fine with me.

Though there may be minor errors in my tabulation (for example, as I stated in my tabulation, some years may be out by a year or so), to put it simply, if I am "plainly wrong" then the bible must also be wrong, in which case, the argument would be irrelevant. You cannot actually indicate textually from the bible how my chronology is wrong. You keep stressing this "servitude-exile-desolation" thing, but it has been demonstrated that the base words from the verses concerned (shamem, chorbah, za'am) do not require complete depopulation for that period. The Society even acknowledges that the 70 years were of Babylon's dominance when it discusses Isaiah 23:15 and the 70 years for which Tyre was "forgotten" though the 70 years did not apply entirely to Tyre.
No, Jeremiah, Ezra, Zechariah and Daniel all in concert refer to aperiod of seventy years marked by servitude-exile--desolation. By emphasizing only one aspect such as servitude is dishonest and is playing false with scripture.
It is evidenced both logically and contextually that Zechariah did not refer to a period that had ended 20 years earlier. Jeremiah, Ezra, and Daniel each discuss a common 70-year period, during part of which, Jerusalem was desolated. The initial prophecy regarding this period is quite clear as to what event would end it, and there is no room in the scriptures for Babylon to start to be judged before the 70 years had ended.
WT chronology is simple so that all can understand it, it is practical because it builds faith in the fulfillment of prophecy and gives certainty not ambiguity so characteristic of all other alternative chronologies.
Simple? Not really. Most Witnesses don't even understand the doctrine, and it has frequently been said from the platform that Witnesses shouldn't worry if they can't explain the doctrine. The problematic doctrine introduces such oddities as the suggestion that that at Jeremiah 25:1, Jeremiah refers to Nebuchadnezzar’s rule relative to Jehoiakim’s rule appointed by Pharaoh Necho, and that at Daniel 1:1, Daniel means Jehoiakim’s third year as a vassal king to Nebuchadnezzar. The average Witness doesn't understand either this reasoning or its purpose. This is much more complicated than the simple truth that Daniel used the accession-year system and Jeremiah did not. It is true that the Society's interpretation does build faith - faith in a false hope believed by the naive, the gullible and the depressed. But all of the believers eventually stop believing, either because they find out the truth of the matter, or they die. Yes, the Society gives a fairly specific date for Jerusalem's destruction, but that date is based on dogma and ignores the simple facts stated in the bible about what event ended the 70 years.
The three texts that you refer do not support your position but simply affirm that Babylon would be overthrown by Cyrus which occurred in 539 and wouls continue to be desolate throughout history.Such an event was necessary for the seventy years to be fulfilled with the Return of the Exiles under Cyrus in 537 BCE.
Any suggestion of simplicity in the Society's interpretation is destroyed by your assertion, as the simple clear statement of the prophecy is that "when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation". The order of events is very very simple. 70 years would end, and then Babylon would begin to be judged. That the desolation of Babylon would continue is irrelevant when considering the simple stated order of events.
z

Narkissos why I can’t post Hebrew words here if yes how can I ? thx
Ops sry My post was straight and nice now it’s all F*** up lol

Watchtower Gives Up Explaining 607 BCE Date!

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