what i mean is according to the society, there are a number of persons that are "technically" "inactive" yet are viewed as jws still.
i'm sure that i'm viewed as a witness still because i am not df'd or disassociated.....what about you??
?
I'm stiil an active (barely) JW. The WTS deserves much of the criticism leveled against them (such as we read about on web-sites such as this one) but there are benefits to living a clean, moral life and their teachings help support me in this endeavor. As far as WTS hypocrisy goes it just puts them on the same level as all other religions.
FM
we all know how that worked with child sexual abuse cases - because the child was only one witness, unless the alleged perp confessed, he walked (and was even protected from cong.
"gossip"!)..
would the same principle apply in a case of "fornication"?
I actually believe that given the two witnesses rule (which is in most instances a very good rule) that ruling the confessing party as guilty and not taking action against the denying party is correct. The denying party may actually be innocent. Most likely the elders believe both parties are guilty but obviously the confessing party could be lying. Scripturally speaking, slander is spiritual murder so an unproven allegation must not be spread. Jehovah knows the guilt and/or innocnence of both parties and he knows motives since he can read hearts.
In the case of unproven child abuse/molestation (single instance) the correct action is to make it a police matter, not a congregation matter. When more than one child has stepped forward with accusations against an individual it should in my opinion be an indication of guilt and handled in the congreation as well as the courts.
FM
almost unbelievably after 4 years of staying away from the hall and the jws last week they called and said there were allegations of apostasy against us.
we have been very quiet about our feelings and so were very surprised and angered.
we were told that they were going to discuss the allegation and determine if we would be formally accused of apostasy.
I truly hurt for you! Your experience frightens me. I have shared copies of the UN NGO letter with others so I suppose I now need to be looking over my shoulder in case the elders find out. My question is why is the showing the letter to someone or providning the link to the letter an act of apostasy? The UN NGO letter is truthful and the United Nations Website is not an apostate website is it? Seems to me that the APOSTATE act was that of the WTBS when it became a NGO. Will someone explain to me the incorrectness of my thinking.
just got my mail order copy of crisis of conscience... got to chapter 2 in the first 20 mins!!!.
who else has read it, and what are your thoughts ???.
i've enjoyed it so far, and am glad to see how respectful ray franz was in his writing, with no 'outright attacks' on the wtbts.. bull!
I have read Crisis of Conscience, ISOCF, Thirty Years a WT Slave and Apocalypse Delayed. I found both COC and AD to be fascinating reading. ISOCF was very informative but a bit too religious for me. The Author of Thirty Years a WT Slave came across as very, very bitter but I would still recommend reading this book for a historical perspective of the WTBTS.
Reading these books and agreeing with what they say does not mean that a JW will cease to be a JW (as in my case). What it has done for me is remove my spiritual blinders and confirm what I suspected for years about the Fascist nature of the organization. If I ever find a religion I think is actually the ?Truth? I?ll join it. In the meanwhile, I?ll sit tight and keep my wife, daughters, grandkids and friends
FM.
with so many "responsibilities" given to the witnesses by the "faithful and discreet slave", there is little time for them to do anything these days except sleep - and that is when they're not out preaching at unearthly hours in the morning.. .
the enormous pressure to perform, and to be under the watch of the elders to make sure you perform, is a draining experience.. .
a book i have on sociology says this regarding jehovah's witnesses, when discussing sects, that "they require intensive commitments and demonstrations of belief by members.
to Theocrat - Who is it that says that the GB is the FDS? They say it but do thier actions prove it? What about the WTBTS' involvement with the United Nations as a NGO, doesn't this make them guilty of spiritual fornication? This is what they have accused the Catholic Church of. I suggest to Theocratic that since you have already committed a disfellowshipping offense by visiting this web site that you vist e-watchman's web site as well and read his letter to the GB regarding their complicity in the UN-NGO issue (by the way, e-watchman is a brother in good standing).
my wife is a jw.. i've been trying to point out the errors of the wtbts but she just doesnt want to hear it.. i'm wonder if some people could share your turning point in regards to your relationship goes.
with the society.
what made you realize that the society was false.
I am an active but very disillusioned JW. I believe that the primary doctrines taught by the WTBTS' are the truth (i.e. Mortal Soul, Hell is grave, no trinity, etc.). All organized religions teach both truth and error and the WTBTS is no exception. I always accepted the imperfection of the organization as being due to human imperfection. I believed the GB to be who they said they are and also believed they did their best to act in the best interest of Christ's sheep (us). My realization the something was not right began about 12 years ago when it became evident to me that the organization was not really concerned with justice and fairness with regard to it's members. I saw so many discrepancies between what the organization taught about adhering to Bible standards and what they themselves practiced in the interest of themselves that I began thinking for myself.
claire was out shopping and bumped into a jw (who hasn't been to meetings herself for a l-o-n-g time!)..
claire: "hi, how're you?".
jw: "yes.
Yes, it's true that the WTS doesn't do "when the end will happen" dates anymore. However they do stick to certain dates that are essential to explain the WTS' involvment in the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. "1914" is a date they will probably never change as it is a key date. For example, if "1914" is admitted as to being incorrect then their explanation of the Societies members being in prison for 18 months in 1918-1919 would also be shown to be a false application of scriptures as it is essentially based on the 1914 date.
I suppose that since "1914" won't change niether will 607 BCE change as the date the Babylonians took the Jerusalem Israelites into captivity for 70 years. It's all part of an interrelated calculation that makes 1914 become the end of the Gentile Times. You are most likely aware that the 607 date and 1914 date were researched by Raymond Franz and found to be most likely in error. Ray explains all this in his book "Crisis of Conscience". I woulds recommend this book to all who would like to learn more about what goes on within the Society.
FairMind
i was wondering if someone wrote to the united nations and asked about if the jw's were part of it.. would the united nations write them back and confirm it?
i was just curious.. my jw relative will not believe the jw's were part of the un at all.
i asked her "if the un wrote you back, on their letterhead, and comfirmed it, you wouldn't believe it?
Hello Country Girl! I understand (from reading another post) that the elders have been informed by the WBTS of thr organiztion's membership in the UN and were given a plausible (but not true) explanation of why they had been members. So, I would suggest that you have your mother approach her congregation's PO with the UN membership question. If she refuses to approach the PO with this question it probably means that in her HEART she already knows/fears the truth about the ORG.
Thanks.
does anyone know if a letter from the wts has been sent to the congregations about their being a member of the un as an ngo?
or has it just been told to the elders and then the rank and file hear about it if they ask the elders?
i know the wts said it was to get a library card but i need to know if there was actually a public announcement to the congregations about it..
I'm glad I viewed this topic. I knew about the NGO thing from Ray Franz's book but had no idea that the elders had been given the organization's version of why. My question is how long ago was this communicated to the elders and has there been any adverse reaction within their ranks?
Wouldn't a brother or sister risk interrogation concerning how they had heard about the NGO thing if they questioned an elder? Thanks.
are elders instructed to contact a jw who has written a letter of da before they make the announcement to the congregation?
i mean, even a phone call to persuade them not to take that course of action?
the reason i ask is my father told me that no one contacted him in any way when he mailed his da letter to the elders.
willyloman said "You expect rules to be followed? You expect justice and compassion?" I used to expect these things but no more! Seems that some get it and some don't. This isn't Jehovah's fault, it is due to the arrogance of man.
