i'm not talking about the stuff you hear at the kingdom hall, i'm talking about the "experiences" you were told of by people you knew.
the big one for me was demons.
so many people i know had experiences with them.
The "demons" were the big superstition when I wqas growing up. There was definitely a WT/Occult connection in my opinion because everyone was obsessed with this.
I never knew how Satan found the time to rule the world and do all this other stuff the JW's thought he was doing.
the governing body has much control over the lives, thoughts, actions, etc..of many.
i was thinking of the "new light" policy and this gives the gb virtually unlimited power to do what they want.. take this for instance: we know how doctrines such as no trinity, no hellfire, and no immortal soul, are all considered the core beliefs that will never change.
lets just that today the gb just happens to reverse them all...what would happen?
I was one of three elders to ask the baptism questions of a young man that I personally considered way too young and way too immature to make the decision to be baptized into the JW religion. My part of the questions dealt with the ransom. He had absolutely no clue what the ransom was, why it was needed, and what his part in it was.
The three elders who had been assigned to speak to this young man met and I said I personally felt that he wasn't ready since he couldn't explain either the concept of the ransom or why it was needed ( all according, of course to JW belief.) I said he should wait until he was older and understood it. (My true objection, not negating his lack of understanding, was his youth)
The uber-elder, alpha male on the panel asks me: Well, how long does he wait in order to be able to explain it?
Stupid me: Well, Brother so-and-so, since the entire balance of creation hinges upon the concept, what does it matter how long he waits if he can't explain it, which mean he doesn't understand it, which means he cannot be possibly repent of his sins because he doesn't comprehend that he has sins and needs redemption.
Uber-elder: Well, his folks want him to get baptized.
We voted. 2-1. He got baptized. One more JW who didn't have a clue what he was either taught or believed in.
as i was reading alanf's thread on "intelligent design" (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/136111/2.ashx) i was stopped at the following comment of his:.
having only got through chapter 3 of behe's book, i wasn't aware that he actually claims that god created the exquisitely designed malaria bug.
for any normal theology, this is completely self-defeating.
I am not sure that i understand your premise, but if God (the Creator of all things according to the Bible) exists, and if He created everything, I do not necessarily think that things such as microbes are of themselves proof that He is an evil deity.
I do think that the "God" of the Bible is written about according to human perspective, for human motives, and to acheive human ends. I do not think one can attribute all the good to this God and not attribute at least some of the bad.
Personally, I think things have worked out according to "God's" plan, we are just not privy to all of it. I would rather live BELEIVING in an ultimately benevolent Creator, than beleiving in nothing at all. We deal with moral choices all the time and at times we must do acts that are evil to accomplish a good result (for instance, sometimes humans must kill other humans in order to defend innocent life). Maybe God wants us to learn these things from experience before he makes us "like" him. If the Genesis account is allegory, perhaps then the serpent was right in the sense that we have "become" like God, or rather, that we need to become like him. I think that possessing that knowledge rather than eternal ignorance, is interesting at the very least. As for appeasement, I personally am for appeasing no one and I do not believe God is the insecure megolamaniac the Bible portrays Him to be.
What JW's and fundies stifle is the conversation and thought that make God interesting because in their view God needs to be protected. How can a being so vast and powerful need protection from us? That is what I find perplexing. The created, in my opinion, are OWED an explanation by the Creator if the Creator is in any way a responsible individual. I do not think that is hubris, I only think it fitting of a being made in the likeness of another.
Thanks for all your insights, by the way. I lurked here a long time and truely appreciated what you had to say.
i keep reading small bits here and there where people mention the " follow the christ" convention states the governing body is now " the christ".
can anyone clarify this or know which talk it is , have audio or video?
any more information of any kind would be appreciated..
April 1st 2007 Watchtower?
page 24 paragraph 13 states
"It is to this holy temple class that Jesus has entrusted his earthly belongings, which means that certain rights and responsibilities within the Christian congregation belong exclusively to this collective slave. For this reason, all in the congregation view it as their sacred duty to follow and uphold the direction coming from the faithful slave and its Governing Body."
This bit about "sacred duty" should have been enough to make any self respecting worshipper of God stand up and walk out of the kingdom hall. Didn't Christ say to Satan at Mattew 4:4 that is was to God alone that one should render "sacred duty?" Is every one at a kingdom hall asleep when these things are read?
My wife UNDERLINED this portion of the WT for her lesson that week, and then denied that Brooklyn ever made such claims, When I showed her her own WT mag. with her own yellow highlighter she couldn't muster an explanation.
Yes. They have taken the place of Jesus Christ in worship to God by placing themselves in his position. They are just more brazen about it as of late.
to all you fathers out there..... happy fathers day!!!!.
some time ago i had heard on a tv documentary the orgins of fathers day!
i googled it and sure enough it is what i had seen on tv and thought i would share it with you.
My BIL asked me yesterday why JW's didn't join in Father's Day. Mind you, my BIL hasn't been active in years. I told him:
It is a man made rule. There is absolutely nothing unscriptural about it.
He thanked me for telling him the truth. He has two little girls. I hope they don't grow up with all the nonsense he and I did.
The WTS is evil.
i just wanted to bless jehovah's name, the only name that is above the heavens that can save mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!.
Unbaptized:
I think you should sell all your belongings and give the proceeds to the WTS. After your check has cleared, knock on 25 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn, NY and tell the brother behind the quartz reception counter that you are there to do "Jehovah's" will and you will not leave until they at Bethel (House of Jehovah) take you in and make you a member. Then, after their response, praise the "name of Jehovah" all you want, bro.
Good luck.
And by the way, since even the Jews after many generations didn't know how to correctly pronounce the divine name, and since taking the divine name in a worthless way (like say, deliberately mispronouncing it like JW's do today) would assure you got a huge rock lodged in your temple, they quit saying the divine name, not out of disrespect or superstition, but out of respect for the 10 commandements. If YHWH struck somone down for picking up sticks on the Sabbath, I guess they figured they weren't going to take any chances with His name, either.
thinking back at the start of me questioning that perhaps the "friends" were not really true friends at all, were some experiences i will relate below: please share those that you have experienced.. after i had carpel tunnel surgery and was in a cast.....not one of the "friends" asked me about it?
at first i thought they wanted to be "polite" and not draw attention to the fact of the cast...but thinking more about it afterwards...it was just plain unloving and uncaring.
while i was still in the cast....the cong.
You cannot "enfore" love. What the WTS does is enforce "conformity" which is in now way, shape, or form related to love. What hurts the most is that the reason most people become JW's is that they long for God's justice and mercy and really believe they have found it with the JW's. All are sorely dissappointed. Others, after realizing there is no true love, just develop an aloofness and distance and get close to no one. This is a religion based on survival, and survival is not loving--- mercy and self sacrifice are. This is an evil religion.
do we sometimes suffer from literal-mindedness?.
is there a cure?.
That's hilarious! Good one!
based solely on whats available in the genesis account, what would happen if eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "serpent" in perpetuity questioning god's motives?
would she be punished for this exercise of free will?.
i ask the question because my personal belief is that if the genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to aesop, confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history .
Things happened just as God knew they would. There was only one outcome. Kind of like the odds of winning the lottery are 100 million to one and God knows who the winner will be. Adam and Eve, if they existed, didn't stand a chance against a more powerful and more cunning intellect.
looking at the thread on dates for the big-a reminded me that i've wanted to ask this question of a jw.
sometime one's going to come to my door and go on their thing about how we get to live in paradise and it's coming soon etc.
so my question is: what difference does it make when it gets here?
Jeff,
As an elder, I would ask the very same question from the platform. What are you going to do any differently the day AFTER Arnageddon that you weren't doing the day BEFORE? God will still be God and his expectations will still be the same, etc.....
The emphasis on the "end" is just a tool of fear. JW's aren't taught to LOVE God, they are taught to be afraid of Him. His judgement is something they need to escape, rather than something to welcome. Doing good is a not reward in itself, but rather the means to a reward: ESCAPE. This is a selfish religion based on survival so far alainated from the love of God that they are pathetic. I feel sorry for the average dub. Their leaders know better.
