Posts by booker-t

5

When a "title" is applied to Jehovah and disciples why don't trinitarians?

by booker-t in

i have mentioned it before on this site that i have a great uncle that is a pentacostal minister.

i have also mentioned that i don't debate the trinity doctrine anymore.

but i broke my own rule the other day when my uncle called me and wanted to prove to me the deity of christ.

booker-t

Carla, you must live in La,la land if you say you come from a "trinitarian" background and you have never heard "trinitarians" make the claim that Jesus is Jehovah because both are called "first and the last" both are called "God" both are called "Shepherd" both are called "Savior" both can forgive sins, both are called "Rock" and so on. I remember when I used to work at my first job and 1/2 the staff were Born-Again Christians they were always showing me these verses trying to prove that Jesus must be Jehovah because they shared many titles. I would have to say either you are in "denial" or you are not telling the truth. And where in the post did I say I was a JW's or associated with the JW's? Everytime a person says that they don't believe in the Trinity, Trinitarians right away assume that they are affliated with JW's. Many Christians don't believe in the Trinity but many of them don't have the guts to speak up against it.

Have any posters seen the website for ex-born agains? its called"Walkaway"

by booker-t in

i was flipping thru some links on this website and ran across a website for ex-born again christians called "walkaway" and "fundementalist annomoyous".

i was reading some of their complaints and it almost mirrors the complaints of ex-jw's.

they talked about the way the born-again church treats members that questions church doctrines.

booker-t

I was flipping thru some links on this website and ran across a website for EX-born again christians called "Walkaway" and "Fundementalist Annomoyous". I was reading some of their complaints and it almost mirrors the complaints of Ex-JW's. They talked about the way the Born-Again Church treats members that questions Church doctrines. I have always said many times over that Born-Again Christians and JW's are twins. They both have the same mind-set. Alot of ex-jws think that grass is green on the other side and run to Born-Again churches only to find out that Born-Agains can be just as crazy as JW's.

5

When a "title" is applied to Jehovah and disciples why don't trinitarians?

by booker-t in

i have mentioned it before on this site that i have a great uncle that is a pentacostal minister.

i have also mentioned that i don't debate the trinity doctrine anymore.

but i broke my own rule the other day when my uncle called me and wanted to prove to me the deity of christ.

booker-t

I have mentioned it before on this site that I have a great uncle that is a Pentacostal minister. I have also mentioned that I don't debate the Trinity doctrine anymore. But I broke my own rule the other day when my uncle called me and wanted to prove to me the Deity of Christ. He first started off by saying that too many titles that are applied to Jehovah is also applied to Jesus. I still can't believe trinitarians still insist on this argument about titles. It is just circular reasoning to say the least. I blasted him with so many examples of titles applied to Jehovah and also applied to Joshua, Moses, Mary, Samson, etc; In Judges 16:18-20 the bible says that Samson's strenght "departed" from him, but a few verses down it says "Jehovah" departed from him. I asked my uncle was Samson and Jehovah the same person? He could not answer me on this one. Jesus Christ says in Rev 3:9-11 that he is going to make his enemies come and "worship" at the feet of the disciples. I asked my uncle was Jesus making the disciples Jehovah God since Jehovah is only to be worshipped according to Jesus at John 4:24-26. He immediately interjected by saying that Jesus was worshipped in the book of Matthew where it showed that they fell and "worshipped" him and in Hebrews 1:6 all of the angels are instructed to "worship" Jesus. I again asked my uncle the same question what about the disciples that Jesus is ordering the enemies to worship. You can't have it both ways if worship means the person is Jehovah in all cases then Jesus was making the disciples Jehovah God. Then my uncle made me laugh and said Jesus meant "obeisance" instead of "worship" in Rev. But yet trinitarians accuse JW's of altering the bible when they say Obesiance. Jehovah says in Isaiah 43:11 there is no "Savior" with me but in the OT Moses is called Savior, Othenial is called Savior. So are Moses and Othenial Jehovah God because Jehovah said there was no "Savior" with him? In Exodus 7:1 Jehovah says Moses will be "god" and Aaron will be his "prophet". Now my question to any Trinitarian is this, How could Moses be "god" according to Jehovah and Aaron be his "prophet". Was Moses a "false" god or True "god"? And only Jehovah has "prophets" so this verse must prove Moses is Jehovah. Nebecchednezzar(sorry for spelling) and Jesus are both called "king of kings" so according to trinitarian argument was Jesus and Neb the same person? The OT is sometimes referred to the "Law of Moses" but is it not the "Law of Jehovah" as well. So does this mean that Jehovah and Moses must share Godship? Is Moses the 4th person of the Trinity? My uncle stop talking after about an hour and did not want to talk anymore. It just amazes me that trinitarians are still using "old" arguments that have been shown to be circular reasoning. I am not saying that my arguments proved against the Deity of Jesus I am just saying that there is room for Doubt because after all it is only my interpretation. Only Jehovah and Jesus knows exactly what the bible means.

4

Why do "Trinitarians" still insist on arguing Jesus is Jehovah if a title?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i had made up my mind that i would no longer engage in any form of debate or discussion concerning the trinity doctrine but my pentacostal granduncle was itching for a trinity debate.

so we debated for 4 hours.

so is moses now apart of the trinity?

booker-t

I had made up my mind that I would no longer engage in any form of debate or discussion concerning the Trinity Doctrine but my pentacostal granduncle was itching for a Trinity debate. So we debated for 4 hours. Most of his arguments were "circular reasoning" because he kept showing me scriptures where a "title" was applied to Jehovah and also applied to Jesus Christ. So he said this was proof positive that Jesus is Jehovah. Titles such as Savior, God, Shepherd, True God, Lord of Lords, First and Last, Alpha and Omega, etc; I told my uncle that if we use this as absolute proof that if a title is applied to 2 people they must be the same then we will have serious problems. Both Moses and Jehovah are called "Savior" both Moses and Jehovah are called "God". Jehovah God himself calls Moses god. So is Moses now apart of the Trinity? And if trinitarians argue that Moses was not a true god then they must say he is a "false god". So 1/4 of the old testaments was written by a "false god". Nebechadnezzar and Jesus Christ are both called "King of Kings". My uncle tried to explain it away by saying that Nebechadnezzar was only king of kings in the old testament, but Jesus is now the king of kings. I showed my uncle a verse that totally blew him away and he even admitted he could not answer it. I showed him Judges 16:18-20 where in verse 18 the bible says Samson's strength "departed" from him, then if you keep reading in verse 20 it says Jehovah "departed" from Samson. I asked my uncle was Samson and Jehovah the same person because it says Samson's strength "departed" from him but 2 verses down it says Jehovah "departed" from Samson. In Revelations Jesus says he is going to command his disciples "enemies" to "worship" at their feet. So Jesus disciples are going to receive "worship" and Jesus is the one commanding it so do trinitarians want to say Jesus' disciples are God because they are going to receive "worship" or is Jesus guilty of promoting "creature worship". The list goes on and on on how absurd the Trinity is when you pick it apart. My uncle stop talking and hung up the phone when he was stumped for answers. Trinitarians just don't intimidate me anymore like they used to before I really examined the Trinity doctrine.

5

What or Who do JW's believe is Gog/Magog?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

when i was a young kid in the 70's and we studied the "nation shall know that i am jehovah" book it really scared me especially the part of gog/magog.

they way the elders would constantly tell us that we did not love jehovah enough and we should do this and do that.

i remember one time the bookstudy conductor told my bookstudy group that "if you all don't want to be part of gog/magog you should pioneer".

booker-t

When I was a young kid in the 70's and we studied the "Nation shall know that I am Jehovah" book it really scared me especially the part of Gog/Magog. They way the elders would constantly tell us that we did not love Jehovah enough and we should do this and do that. I remember one time the bookstudy conductor told my bookstudy group that "if you all don't want to be part of Gog/Magog you should pioneer". Right after that my sister ran to the elders to sign up for pioneer service. She was really "devout" more than the rest of my siblings. She was baptized at 16 years of age in 1974. Now she wants nothing to do with JW's or the Watchtower. So my original question is What or Who do JW's believe is Gog/Magog?

7

What or Who do JW's think that the "Anti-Christ" is? Dec Watchtower is conf

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i recently read the spanish edition of the december watchtower on the anti-christ and i am still confused as to what jw's believe the anti-christ is.

i know they believe that the churches of christendom are part of it but the december watchtower did not specifically state so.

also what do jw's believe is the mark of the beast and the 666. i never really got a definite explanation on this even when i was a jw's.

booker-t

I recently read the Spanish edition of the December Watchtower on the Anti-Christ and I am still confused as to what JW's believe the Anti-Christ is. I know they believe that the churches of Christendom are part of it but the December Watchtower did not specifically state so. Also what do JW's believe is the mark of the beast and the 666. I never really got a definite explanation on this even when I was a JW's.

11

Did Jesus Christ commit a serious sin and ask Jehovah to forgive him?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i was talking to this girl the other day about the movie the da vinci code.

i went and saw the movie and loved it.

i had heard for years and years that some people felt that jesus had and "affair" with mary magdeline and had kids with her.

booker-t

I was talking to this girl the other day about the movie the Da Vinci code. I went and saw the movie and loved it. I had heard for years and years that some people felt that Jesus had and "affair" with Mary Magdeline and had kids with her. The girl I was talking to said that she believed Jesus did have an "affair" with Mary Magdeline and that is why he is crying out to Jehovah while on the cross "Father, Father why have you forsaken me?" She said that Bible translators delibrately change this passage to read like this but it should really read Father, Father, why won't you forgive me." She feels that Jesus was asking Jehovah for forgiveness because he committed a sin. I was wondering should the passage read Father, Father why won't you forgive me. And really what is the difference between forgive and forsake. I must admit I have always wondered about this passage where Jesus is asking Jehovah why is he forsaken him. Even as a JW's I had doubts about this. It is almost as what the girl I was talking to said that Jesus wanted forgiveness. I must admit that JW's and Born Again Christians tend to have a "closed mind" to every thing that goes against what they believe in. I am also including myself because since I have been out I now look at both sides of the coin. I will always love Jehovah and Jesus that won't change but I am not so "dogmatic" as I use to be when I was a JW's.

10

What is the "new" public reproof annoucement for repentant sinners?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i have been out for so long now (da'ed in 1993) and i heard that jw's now have a "new" annoucement for disfellowshipping people.

no longer one of jw's.

but what about jw's that "repent" and want to stay as jw's what do the jw's elders say about them.

booker-t

I have been out for so long now (DA'ed in 1993) and I heard that JW's now have a "new" annoucement for disfellowshipping people. No longer one of JW's. But what about JW's that "repent" and want to stay as JW's what do the JW's elders say about them. I remember when I was a devout JW's the elder came up with a phrase to kick out non-baptized JW's. They would say so and so is "no longer an approved associate" I thought this was funny because how can you kick someone out that never became a member. I remember non baptized JW's kids being put on public reproof for sins. They would say so and so has been reproved for conduct "unbecoming" of a christian. It seems like JW's lingo changes every 10 years. So I am just curious how they reprove baptized JW's and non baptized JW's?

21

Apostates/ex-jw's do you think that you are "addicted" to JW's-bashing?

by booker-t in

if your best friend constantly bashed her ex-husband to you daily would you go nuts and tell her to move on with her life?

most people would probably say yes!

but why can't apostates and ex-jws do the same with the watchtower society?

booker-t

If your best friend constantly bashed her ex-husband to you daily would you go nuts and tell her to move on with her life? Most people would probably say Yes! but why can't Apostates and ex-jws do the same with the Watchtower Society?(myself included). My psychology professor told me as long as ex-jws continue to "bash" they will never move on with their lives. Pain and trauma occurs when one leaves a group but to continously "bash" and "bash" for the fun of it just is a waste of time.

11

Do you think that Jehovah and Jesus should take some of the blame?

by booker-t in

i truly love jehovah and jesus and no matter what i will always serve them, but sometimes i feel that jehovah and jesus are the blame for satan the devil getting totally out of control.

i just don't understand(and maybe never will) why jehovah and jesus have allowed satan and the demons to cause nothing but heartache for thousands and thousands of years.

people always talk about free will and that jehovah has a bigger plan ahead but why should people have to suffer misery in order to possibly gain happiness?

booker-t

I truly love Jehovah and Jesus and no matter what I will always serve them, but sometimes I feel that Jehovah and Jesus are the blame for Satan the Devil getting totally out of control. I just don't understand(and maybe never will) why Jehovah and Jesus have allowed Satan and the Demons to cause nothing but heartache for thousands and thousands of years. I just don't get it. People always talk about free will and that Jehovah has a bigger plan ahead but why should people have to suffer misery in order to possibly gain happiness? If someone threatened myself or my family I would do whatever it takes to subdue them Why on earth would the Almighty God Jehovah just allow Satan all of this power?