Posts by Fleur

21

Is there new light on separation/divorce?

by somebodylovesme in

i had a chance to thumb through the bible teach book (which was a waste of fifteen minutes of my life that i'll never get back ...) and i had a question about the section on family life.

i believe it stated that separation was allowed in some extreme situations (not named), but that divorce was only allowed in cases of fornication..

i was never a jw, but i'm currently watching a jw family member go through some crap in their marriage.

Fleur

Yes, that's right, no one can remarry unless 'adultery' is proven. Not just committed, mind you, proven. This is why I have known some women to hire private investigators on their exes to prove the deed had been done when the men were playing them but they congregation wouldn't acknowledge it.

I've also known of situations like this... when your 'loving jw husband' cries to the congregation that he's so heartbroken that you're leaving him (but neglects to tell them you're abusing her) and he starts dating someone while the divorce is going on, poised to remarry soon as it's final...and so tells his wife that he'd "better be able to remarry in the kingdom hall; or ELSE"...so a terrified young women has to choose to give up her family to get out with her life and let them have their stinking, backward, dark-ages-mentality oppressive publishing company and just get away...*pointing to self*

I am so sorry for what your relative is going through. It's not right, it's not fair, and no woman should have to stay with a man who abuses her or lose her whole family unless she's willing to live and die alone. It's dispicable.

hugs to you, and your relative...

essie

23

Love Is . . . . .

by nicolaou in

when you give your 12 year old daughter a big squeeze when you get home from work.

she'll feign embarrassment and complain "oh dad" because she's not a 'kid' anymore but she won't pull away.

nic'

Fleur

This is perfect description of parental love, Brooke...I feel this way all the time...

.....when you put your children to sleep after a crazy day, then 20 minutes later you want to wake them up, because you miss them so.
Brooke

To me, "romantic" love is holding someone's hand on the worst day of your life, and knowing that you wouldn't want to be anywhere else, in better circumstances, without them. It's hard to explain, but I've been there, on the worst day of my life and the worst day of his. On mine, I knew I couldn't survive it without him holding me up; and on his, I was so honored to have the chance to return the favor.

Real love doesn't hurt to give or get. It doesn't wither or die easily. It's a hardy plant, and don't let anyone else try to sell you "love" that isn't.

I could go on for days on this subject, because I have loved, been loved, and really found love that has lasted almost a decade to this point and I don't foresee it changing because I don't take it for granted...love is, in the end, when it's real, something worth constructing the rest of your life around, not trying to jam into your schedule. It's something you have to take time to make and preserve. And it's so worth it.

I can't wait for my sweetie to get through the door...I'm overdue for my hug. Yes, almost 10 years I've been in love with him and I still watch the clock, and the door, and wait to hear his key. Damn, I am so lucky.

ah, there's that key! Gotta run :) I have to meet someone at the door.

essie

14

Awful Dream

by unique1 in

jw
friends

i had a dream last night that my dad had a heart attack and died.

my mom said it was because i broke his heart when i left the "truth".

i just cried and cried.

Fleur

Susan Forward is a great writer! Her book Toxic Parents was a huge wakeup call for me and literally, changed my life. It's the book that sent me to therapy, which I needed so badly. I also love Martha Beck, there are a bunch of great Beck articles on the Oprah magazine website. She's a genius.

Unique...I have siblings and I can tell you, it makes no difference. While my siblings have not been there for my parents at ALL as they've aged, grown more health problems, and grown more 'needy', my husband and I, the "black sheep" and the "Worldly spouse" respectively, have been there for them. Sometimes, they appreciate it, I know my father does more than my mother. But sometimes, my mother still says the most horrible, hurtful things because she's angry at me for not going back.

But she's angry, period. They promised her she'd never get old. She's retirement age now, and no new system with youth, vitality, her dead loved ones returned, and as my husband likes to put it, "lions playing frisbee with sheep at the eternal picnic." She feels cheated. she has been cheated. But she thinks that salvation is tied to the borg, so no matter what, she stays.

You know the best thing I found to help ward off these dreams most of the time? (not always successful, but more of the time than not as years go by) is to think of a very happy memory from recent years. I close my eyes, and remember the sounds, sights, smells, the emotions I felt at that moment...and when I fall asleep, I dream good things.

I hope your dreams get kinder and kinder with time, my dear ((((((big hugs))))

essie

37

The Increasing Degradation of Women in the Watchtower Society.

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

from towerwatcher:the increasing degradation of women in the watchtower society.

the lifestyle of a woman as one of jehovah's witnesses is certainly not an easy job.

it is a well known fact that most of the work that takes place within the watchtower society contributing to its success, is due to the backbone of the watchtower which can be described as the women in the congregation.

Fleur

"34 let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak, but let them be in subjection, even as the Law says."

Joff, a relative of mine used to quote that everytime one of the women in the family made a point he didn't like. He was only half joking!

Randy, great post as always! I think that this is the biggest issue that caused me to make the decision that I had to get out, not only myself, but to raise my daughter outside the org.

I knew I'd been raised to be an "obediant wife", subserviant, and always believing that I was inferior to a man. I wanted her to grow up knowing that men and women are equal. We may have different strengths and abilities as individuals, but just because a man is a man does not make him inherently wiser, better, or more fit to lead than any woman.

It always surprised me that they didn't come out with 'new light' that only men were going to be accepted to be of the 144,000! I was always amazed that they gave women that role as well.

All I ever heard was "be a better wife and pray more." I am so glad knowing now that when I turn to my husband for support, I will never, ever hear that come out of his mouth. I am his equal in his eyes, and more importantly, in my own eyes. It took years to get here, but I wouldn't go back to the domination of the Tower for anything now.

hugs

essie

14

Awful Dream

by unique1 in

jw
friends

i had a dream last night that my dad had a heart attack and died.

my mom said it was because i broke his heart when i left the "truth".

i just cried and cried.

Fleur

I'm so very sorry, honey (((((((((Unique))))))) I hate dreams like that. I have all kinds of them, variations on a theme, but they all run along the same lines. i'm the family failure and embarrassment, I'm the one who broke Grandma's heart before she died by not getting reinstated...then there was the one where my mother told me that I killed my ex's dad, giving him cancer from grief about my divorcing his son and leaving the "truth"...oh wait. That last one wasn't a dream. My mother actually said that to me, the day they buried my ex-father in law :(

This stuff all sucks. I wish I could've made my grandma happy before she died, but I just couldn't give in and go back to a lie. I believe now that she understands everything I did, and why. I think we're both at peace at last about it all.

hugs,

essie

31

How did you cope?

by Zico in

jw
friends

when you found out that this religion probably wasn't the one true religion like you had believed probably for a large portion of your life, or maybe even all of it, how did you react?

my whole life belongs to the society.

all my friends are witnesses, my family are witnesses, even my job is dedicated to the society.

Fleur

Hi there, welcome to the forum!

Please don't mistake the cavalier way that some speak of leaving and getting a new life and all, or the humor that we try to put on the situation, as an indication that it's easy. It is never, ever easy. For some of us, we barely make it out alive. Some don't, which is so heartbreaking because if they could just get the help and support they need, they could have such happy and fulfilling lives, and bring so much to the world. I have lost friends to suicide who couldn't find the sun after losing their families.

The thing is this, do you deceive yourself and stay in a religion that means death to your individuality, your spirit, your 'soul' for want of a better term, because your family chooses to? Do you give up yourself and any chance at real happiness to please Mom, or Dad, or the Kids?

I couldn't; my desire for my child to not be the fifth generation in our bloodline was too strong. Now they're working on the sixth generation in my family, but they will have to carry on without us. We've found the way out, and it's so worth it. Seek support, keep talking, and above all else, don't ever, ever give up on life.

I'm glad you found your way here.

hugs

essie

93

In ref. to child abuse

by jw in

.

ok all time to get real.

child abuse is not limited to jw's.. if you truly want to stop child abuse first start with the family , and be honest we all have a relative that is a pedophile.. then protect your family from stranger danger.. don't just isolate to jw's.. expand and truly stop the child abuse world wide.

Fleur

I'm not responding to our new friend jw because if he/she really wants to know what exJW's have done to fight child abuse in and out of the borg, he/she can visit silentlambs.

I am posting to respond to what happened to Steve as a child. Steve, I just have tears. I don't know what to say. I am so very sorry that happened to you. I wish you peace and healing...

hugs

essie

23

suppose it's time....

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

alright.. i've been here for over a year.

and i guess after opening my big stupid mouth on jw's thread regarding child abuse it's time for me to share a bit more about me.... .

when i was in my preteens i ran away from home in the middle of the night.

Fleur

(((((((((BSoM))))))))) You didn't do anything wrong. A crime was committed against you, and you are a survivor, not a victim.

You will help a lot of people with this post, I'm sure of it. You're very brave. I am sorry about what happened to you.

((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
essie

21

"I am Finally Free."

by scout575 in

"i read everything i could get my hands on, from secular scholarship to apologists, hoping and praying that christianity was the truth.

i had no choice but to come to the logical conclusion that christianity was untrue.

i actually went around for a while thinking i would go to hell because i no longer believe in jesus.'.

Fleur

I posted here breifly about my experience coming to the realization that I wasn't Christian...that's quite a journey from out of JW to un-Christian...but it's one of the best ones I've ever taken. I like it this way.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/71216/1.ashx

essie

13

Gay & Lesbian JW where are you?

by LEC in

i came out of the closet when i was 18 yrs to my parents & the elders expelled me out ever since that my life has changed completely!!!

i was born under a jw household and i finally celebrated my first birthday when i was 21 yrs and it felt weird.

i was just wondering how to cope w/ this feelings, sometimes i want to go back but i can't ignore my feelings.

Fleur

In fact life is good whenever anyone chooses to live authentically whether gay or straight.

Here, here! I'll definitely second that!

Welcome to the forum, LEC. I'm not gay, but I am definitely equal rights for all: and I have always tried to be a good friend to the GLBT community, ex-jw and never JW! People are people, and love is love, that's my stand. As long as you're talking about two people who love each other and are adults...then it's no one's place to judge.

Hope you get lots of good responses, or at least PM's (hint, hint, to anyone who might not want to post openly on the forum, you can always PM!)

I think your feelings are very common. I know I considered going back for a long time...to make my grandmother happy, to make my mother happy, to just stop being the 'family embarrassment." but I am who I am, and there's no changing that for any manmade organization, let alone one as messed up as the JW's are. So I have no plans to go back. But it is totally normal to consider it.

Cherish your freedom above all else :)

hugs and again, welcome!