Posts by Athanasius

18

Peculiar NWT rendering: System of Things

by Athanasius in

this morning at church i read the new testament lesson, which was ephesians 1:15-23, from the new revised standard version bible.

verse 20-21 says:.

"god put this power to work in christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, (21) far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come.".

Athanasius

Hi Dinah. I agree with you. My mom is a JW and everytime she mentions "this old system of things," I also want to barf.

And, Dan the Man, you are so right. The NWT is a one man translation and thus reflects Freddy Franz's idiosyncrasies. Since Freddy ended his secular education in 1913 and thereafter led a cloistered life, his Bible version contains phrases and terminology that were common in the 1890s and early 1900s. For example 1 Timothy 6:18 NWT says: "To work at good, to be rich in fine works, to be liberal, ready to share." J. N. Darby, who completed his translation of the Bible in 1890 also uses the term "liberal" in verse 18. However, the New Revised Standard Version translates 1 Timothy 6:18: " They are to do good, to be rich in good works, generous, and ready to share." I don't know of a single modern English Bible version that uses "liberal" in place of "generous" in this verse. Another example is Daniel 4:14 where Freddy uses the word "boughs" where the NRSV and other modern language Bibles use "branches." The English language has changed a lot since 1890, but the problem with the NWT is that Freddy didn't adapt to the changing times.

Because of the awkwardness of the translation, I was embarrassed to use the NWT in the field service, prefering the New International Version and using the excuse that by using the NIV at the door the householder couldn't say we only use our own Bible.

18

Peculiar NWT rendering: System of Things

by Athanasius in

this morning at church i read the new testament lesson, which was ephesians 1:15-23, from the new revised standard version bible.

verse 20-21 says:.

"god put this power to work in christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, (21) far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come.".

Athanasius

This morning at church I read the New Testament lesson, which was Ephesians 1:15-23, from the New Revised Standard Version Bible. Verse 20-21 says:

"God put this power to work in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, (21) far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come."

Thirty years ago when giving public talks as a JW elder I read the same Scripture using the NWT, which renders verse 21 as: "far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named not only in this system of things, but also in that to come."

The Watchtower's peculiar rendering of the Greek word aion as "system of things," was always an embarrassment when I had to use the NWT when talking with non-JWs. Did "system of things" and other peculiar translations in the NWT irritate you too?

75

Your Opinion: Why Do Some JWs Come Here & Defend The Witnesses?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is it that they are masochists?.

they are already being disobedient to the "slave" by coming to these internet sites.. so, why do they do it??

?.

Athanasius

I get the impression from the hostile comments here that the Watchtower ripped some of you off big time. But thats not an excuse to turn your hostility toward individual JWs like Reniaa. During my 30 plus years in the JW religion the people who showed hostility just made me want to stay in the Watchtower because we were warned about persecution. However, it was the people who tried to kindly reason with me that made the best impression. I fondly remember an elderly Church of Christ elder who was a return visit of mine. I spent many hours trying to convince him to become a JW because I thought we had the "truth." Nevertheless, it was the objections that he raised, in a kindly manner, that got me to do research into the JW theology, research that led to my first doubts about the Watchtower being God's Channel. Though it took another 15 years before my final exit from the JWs, still it was the kind reasoning manner of this old gentleman that started me on the path to freedom.

The JWs who come here to witness, if treated kindly, may start doing some objective research into their own religion. Hopefully such research will make them more enlightened about God and the Watchtower.

47

Ran into the JW table at San Diego airport...

by Confession in

yes, my ladyfriend and i were entering the san diego airport for our flight home to phoenix late yesterday afternoon, when i noticed a forty-ish man and woman sitting down behind a table loaded with wts publications.

i stopped to glance over them with joy.

i made familiar comments about some of the publications, noting the newer soft covers and trying to casually engage the pair in conversation.

Athanasius

It seems to me that "witnessing" has become an empty ritual for most JWs. It is all about marking up time sheets with lots of hours spent doing nothing. In some religions they have rituals where one burns candles and incense. The JW ritual is to stand on a street corner holding the Watchtower magazine or knock on doors where nobody is home.

46

Have you met Governing Body members?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

brother jaracz taught one day of my mts class, the very last day.

when i was in bethel i met brother schroeder, brother sydlik, barr, barry.

i said hi to brother franz once as a kid.. the new ones?

Athanasius

At a District Convention back in 1959 I met the Watchtower Oracle himself, Freddy Franz. From the platform he sounded like a real big man, but when I met him I was actually taller than he was and I was only 12 years old at the time.

In 1975, the year Armageddon happened, I met his eminence, Ted Jaracz. He had been invited by our Circuit to give a special talk. Our PO knew Jaracz and he asked me if I would like to meet "his eminence," so I said sure why not. Jaracz's talk was bland and uninspiring, nothing like Freddy Franz who could spin a good yarn. In person Jaracz was just as bland and uninspiring.

Years later in talking with Maximus I learned what a SOB Jaracz was and how he manipulated his way to the top of the Watchtower dictatorship.

12

The answer to the WT making more money

by horrible life in

jw
friends

advertisements and direct sales .

this is the answer to all the financial woes of the wt.

wanting more and more money from the rank and file, in these economic bad times, is like beating a dead horse.

Athanasius

Maybe the Watchtower should try this next year:

Wasn't it wonderful to learn at the 2009 Divine Illusion District Assemblies that all baptised JWs are now invited to partake of the emblems at the Memorial. To serve the needs of our brothers for the 2010 Memorial, the Society will make available special Watchtower Wine from Kingdom Farms; where each step of the winemaking process is supervised by a member of your Governing Body. The final product is blessed with a special prayer by our beloved Brother Jaracz. Watchtower Wine will be made available for a donation of $100.00 per two litre bottle. We suggest 10 bottles per 100 partakers.

Now some may reason that this expensive for red wine, but many brothers think nothing of spending $75.00 for a 3/4 litre bottle of French Champagne. Moreover, Watchtower wine is the only wine available that is blessed by your Governing Body. With this wonderful provision from Jehovah now available to all congregations of God's people, it would be improper to serve wine from worldly sources. Therefore, begining in January, each body of elders will need to ascertain the needs of their congregations and order accordingly.

Watchtower Matzos are also required for the Memorial. As with Watchtower Wine, every process of Matzo preparation and baking is closely supervised by a member of your Governing Body. Watchtower Matzos will be sent to your congregation for a $10.00 donation per box of 12. We suggest 10 boxes per 100 partakers.

113

BOE letter: "presiding overseer" becomes "coordinator of the body of elders

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

here's the text of the letter:.

christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.

to all bodies of elders.

Athanasius

I think the Watchtower Corporation is trying to create the illusion of decentralization to protect their assets from lawsuits. Right now the CO controls patronage, in that he can veto the BOE's recommendations for elders and Mini Servants. With the replacement of CO's with local "coordinating elders," BOE's will have more control over patronage. Since the local Coordinator will no doubt be an unpaid volunteer, it may become easy for the ambitious to grease his palm. Where the CO might have been more principled in these situations because of their direct ties to Watchtower Corporate headquarters, the local unpaid volunteer might not have the scruples to resist monetary compensation for his recommendations. Think of the havoc this will create for the rank and file. In the long run this scheme may backfire big time for the Watchtower Corporation.

10

Is the WTS. controlled by Satan the Devil in view of what its done ?

by Homerovah the Almighty in

Athanasius

Interesting question Homer. Back in the early 1970s when the Watchtower started the special tract work, it was Kingdom News something and we were required to distribute a tract to everyone in our congregation's territory in just two weeks. At the time I was young and didn't know the truth about the "Truth." Anyway I was out the the field service and I gave a tact to this older gentleman, and he starts thumbing through it and notes that it is printed by the Watchtower. So he says: "Watchtower! The Devil's warehouse." Then he gives the tract back to me. Ten years later, after reading Crisis of Conscience and other books exposing the JWs, I realized that the old guy was right.

4

Mormons and JWs the same organization?

by cameo-d in

david icke seems to think so.. http://www.cephas-library.com/jw/jw_jw_lds_same_origin.html.

i am just wondering what most of you all think.. do any of the ex-jws here believe any of this stuff?.

i saw through search that much has been mentioned about icke on this website, but a lot of it seems to have been from 2002, so i know some people here must be familiar with it.. i am not talking about the far flung lizard people.

Athanasius

I think that the legal departments of both religions work together when facing common issues. Whether in the future they sign a concordat to not compete for converts and to distribute each other's literature remains to be seen.

18

Great Pyramid is Jehovah's Witness. How so?

by cameo-d in

i read it in wiki.. the best i can make out is that these are the reasons:.

"patterned after the capstone of the great pyramid of egypt, symbolic of the christ".

and that russell made (superstitious) predictions based on measurements in the pyramid.. "russell had first published that the date 1874 was derived from a measurement of 3416 pyramid inches[105] which measurement was revised in the 1910 edition to 3,457 inches (87.8 m) to point to 1915.".

Athanasius

When Rutherford named his sect "Jehovah's Witnesses" he may have forgotten that Russell and Smyth had already given that name to the Great Pyramid. In STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES Volume 3 THY KINGDOM COME (1902 edition) page 320 Russell says: 'A few years after Prof. Smyth's return, came the suggestion that the Great Pyramid is Jehovah's "Witness," and that it is as important a witness to divine truth as to natural science.'

If the Great Pyramid is JEHOVAH'S WITNESS, then I guess that makes the JWs who today knock on doors fake Jehovah's Witnesses as they ignore this important segment of Russell's religious teaching.