some of them are brainwashed.
some were bad already.. ive been thinking about why i've been so intolerant of jws lately.
weary of their prattle?
Greetings, Ashitaka,
What you said has merit. Often certain personality types are drawn to a religious or political groups because it gives them the opportunity to be abusive with out any accountability. Yet there may be others who are not abusive when they join, but the group's religious or political bent makes them so. I think that the Watch Tower has attracted both types.
Athanasius
eu has noticed that a number of persons making up this forum are guilty of showing disrespect to jehovah's witnesses.
some refer to jws as 'hovahs and others talk about kingdumb hells, all the time professing to follow christ.. some may justify their rude behavior by saying that jws themselves can be rude.
even if the charge is true, and eu is not really convinced that it is, why cannot ex-jws rise above the fray?
Hi Eutapro,
You didn't give me an honest answer as to whether JWs are apostates because the deviate from Bible Student teachings. You also claim that JWs don't follow the teachings of men. Well if that is true then why do you need a Governing Body of men to tell you what to do? The Bible should speak to you personally without the interpretations of those old men. But again by your Governing Body's interpetation of Apostasy, Jehovah's Witnesses are Apostates, and you can't deny that.
Regarding Martin Luther, ask a Roman Catholic if Luther is an Apostate or not. After all Luther was once a Catholic priest who later left the faith.
Sincerely,
Athanasius
i have always tried to figure out for years what is the reasoning behind the name kingdom hall, any thoughts on this?
Greetings,
Rutherford may have been influenced by his Knights of Pythias background when he coined the term KINGDOM HALL. As a young man Rutherford belonged to the Knights and several other fraternal organizations that met in lodge halls where a lot of drinking may have taken place.
Sincerely,
Athanasius
eu has noticed that a number of persons making up this forum are guilty of showing disrespect to jehovah's witnesses.
some refer to jws as 'hovahs and others talk about kingdumb hells, all the time professing to follow christ.. some may justify their rude behavior by saying that jws themselves can be rude.
even if the charge is true, and eu is not really convinced that it is, why cannot ex-jws rise above the fray?
Hi Eutapro,
Your church uses the term apostate quite frequently to describe those who left the Jehovah's Witness religion. However, aren't the Jehovah's Witnesses of today actually apostates themselves? According to your own history books Charles Taze Russell was the first president and founder of the Watch Tower corporation. He also started the publication of the Watch Tower magazine and organized the Bible Student movement. I don't know how familiar you are with Russell's writings and beliefs as they are no longer published by the Watch Tower. But if one reads Russell's 6 volume STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES one finds that the Bible Student belief structure is quite different from that of the Jehovah's Witnesses. In reality the Jehovah's Witnesses broke away from the Bible Students who maintained Russell's teachings. So by your own definition, Eutapro, you are an apostate.
And if you go back to 1878 one finds that Russell broke away from the Adventists, and by using the Jehovah's Witness definition of apostasy, this would make Russell an apostate.
I am curious as to what your answer will be.
Sincerely,
Athanasius
the following is a post dealing with dateline and pedophilia in the borg.
i predict that the guy who wrote this post may show up here one day before too long.
get a load of this:.
Greetings,
Thank you Trotafox for posting that final comment from the JW line. Its good to see that not all JWs are buying the party line. It is now 6 p.m. in California, has there been any more JW posts since the last time you checked? It would be interesting to see what else they are saying.
Sincerely,
Athanasius
do i want to be like the ex-jws on this board?
Greetings Eutapro et al,
One question that JWs should ask themselves is why they don't demand a General Convention to enable each and everyone, clergy (elders) and laity, to have a voice in Watch Tower policy? What is wrong with an open and public debate of the issues? Why aren't Jehovah's Witnesses allowed to select whom they want to serve on the Governing Board, a body that makes life and death decisions for them? The problem with your organizational structure is that it lacks the necessary checks and balances, making it incapable of dealing with the issues addressed by DATELINE. Your stock answer will be that you let God deal with it and that He will make the necessary changes.
Well to me it looks like God uses the democratically elected governments of the United States of America, United Kingdom, France, and other nations, to make the Watch Tower change its policies. Wouldn't it be more direct if God used a democratically elected General Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses to change the Watch Tower?
Perhaps you could spearhead a movement for change in your church.
Good luck,
Athanasius
first lie: erica.
i dont believe erica lied about her abuse.
obviously it must be true, even mr. beliz confessed that he touched her inappropriately.
Salus, Matrix et non trias Theos,
Do you two really believe that your clergy (elders) should report child molesters to the police only if it is required by state law? And so you think that it is the responsibility of non-Witnesses to enact legislation to require the Witness clergy to report these abuses to the proper law enforcement agencies? What kind of religion do you belong to? My Church has a no tolerance policy regarding crimes against children. Molesters are reported to the police regardless of whether the state requires it or not. Your church should do the same.
Matrix, you and Non, if you are really on the side of the children, should start a petition drive in your local churches (Kingdom Halls) to force the Witness Vatican (Bethel) to change their harmful policies. What your church really needs is a general convention with delegates representing both the Witness clergy and lay people to discuss and change policy. I hope that these suggestions have been helpful.
Good luck,
Athanasius
anyone on this board ever known a freemason?
.
and can i possibly get some info on the freemasons please.
Though I have never been a Free Mason, my grandfather was a Mason. However, I did attended their open house at the local lodge. It was an enjoyable occasion. They do a lot for charity. But much study is involved if you want to join and get your degrees. If you are in business, it is an excellent opportunity to network.
As was mentioned in previous posts there is a lot of information out there about the Masons. But you can also call your local lodge and find out when they will have an open house. That way you can see for yourself.
Sincerely,
Athanasius
my jw daughter came over monday to tell me all about her visit to bethel!.
first, she said how happy she felt and so very emotional when they took them, (a group of 8) to where the "twelve goberning body" held their meetings.
she said: "mom, i got to see where they sit!".
Hi Yadira,
Though I never visited Bethel or the Farm I remember the reactions of JWs who did. Back in 1978 I had given the Public Talk in a congregation about 60 miles from my own. One of the brothers had my wife and me over for dinner after the Sunday meeting. During the dinner conversation he told how he, his wife, and their two boys had visited Bethel the previous year and what a great privilege it was for his boys to be there. He went on and on as if he had visited the Vatican and had had an audience with the Holy Father.
Even though my departure from Watch Tower land was still six years away I still thought this worship of Watch Tower headquarters and printing facilities was way too much.
Athanasius
from: "nowaytess" < [email protected]> .
date: wed may 22, 2002 12:26 pm.
subject: just had jw at my door.
Hi Nowaytess,
Two JWs called on us a week ago last Sunday. It was an older guy and a younger guy. My girlfriend answered the door and when she found out who they were she called for me since I had once been associated with the JWs. They didn't know me so I had some fun talking with them. The young guy tried to give me a Watch Tower magazine, which I declined. I wanted to bring up the pedaphile issue, but thought it best to wait until they gave me an opportunity. So we talked about Scriptural intrepretation for awhile. Which didn't get anywhere, so then the older guy says that while other religions claim to believe in the Scriptures, the JWs were the only religion that really practiced Bible principles.
That gave me the opening to ask about all the child molestation going on in their church, since this is contrary to the Bible. The older guy said that there was only one case of child molestation among the Witnesses and that was in New York. I purposely didn't mention DATELINE, as he probably already knew about that and bringing up the program might arouse suspicion. But I told him what I had heard on CBS Radio News, and CNN; and that it was a lot more than one case of child molestation among the JWs.
Since it was obvious that our discussion was not getting anywhere and also my breakfast was getting cold, I ended the conversation. I doubt that they will ever come back.
Sincerely,
Athanasius
