Well had some JW here yesterday. No they do not know I am an ex-JW. LOL I let them talk and they said they would bring me magazines if I wanted I said sure I find them interesting. Though I did not say why. I use the magazines when talking to JW online so this will be about the only way to get them now days. Maybe they will bring me their latest brochure, but I might not be interested enough. They didn't seem to interested in wasting time like we used to on folks. This same couple brought me the book "God's word or Man's?" which I took apart with them. I'm getting good at this. They left not knowing what to think.
Posts by Balsam
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16New Brochure released at District Convention
by anew ini just got off the telephone with my mom.
she wants me to take this brochure and i don't want it.
she tells me that they were instructed at the covention to only give it to those who showed an interest, and in other words not to waste these on those who don't seem like they deserve it!
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29
should crisis of conscience be on the net?
by sleepy ingot to be honest an say i'm supprissed cofc is not on the net in some offical form.
any good reason why its not there?
lets think, if i was a executive in a pharmaceutical company that gave out drug that were harmful, i then realised the drugs were bad, but the rest of the exectives didn't want to know and chucked you out,you lost your money and pension but you had the infomation to help people who had taken the bad drugs , would you, .
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Balsam
When I was looking for COC, I had wished it was on the internet. But when I finally had the book in hand and saw how thick it was I was glad it had not been on there. I believe there are some exerpts from the book at Raymonds web site which gives a taste of the book. But having that book in hand is liberating in itself somehow. And hey you can't take the computer to the bath tub to read and relax like you can with a good book.
I think the exerpts are enough for a JW to decide if the book if for them. Buying it or getting it from a library (If JW have stolen the copies in order to destroy it) is the best way to read it.
Ruth
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15
Most Delusional Moment as a Jehovah's Witness
by Terry ini remember standing there in the evening light of a setting texas sun in the middle of a federal prison with a chilled wind whipping up dust devils around me.
i was twenty years old and so skinny you didn't need an x-ray to see through me.
seagoville was a prison filled with lost souls, men with dumpsters for hearts and foul mouths that spat the contents of a poisoned mind into your ears.
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Balsam
My Child is DeadMy son Dak was theocratic - bright and promising and a true servant of Jehovah. He dreamed of going to Bethel to serve Jehovah more fully. He prepared for meetings on his own, pioneered during summer breaks, handled the microphones at the Kingdom Hall, and timed the student talks for the Ministry School Overseer. He even gave talks at assemblies. We as Jehovah Witness parents were so proud!
He was 15 years old and in the 9th grade when he and another young Witness were in a terrible auto accident. The other boy was driving my son home from the Sunday meeting from the Kingdom Hall when the boy raced the car, lost control and flipped it many many times. I was at the time a faithful Witness for 29 years, and my husband and I trained our son to refuse blood transfusions just as we would ourselves to please our God Jehovah. To prove our undying love for him. Dak told the ambulance drivers, "No blood!" and he said it again at the first hospital before he became unconscious. When he was air lifted to the trauma center, he was immediately transfused because he was unconscious and a minor and the law permitted the doctors to try and save his life with blood if they could.
By then, however, a lot of time had passed (about 2 hrs) and there had been severe internal bleeding that had damaged his heart and other organs. When we arrived at the trauma center, the doctor told us that he had no chance of survival without blood transfusions, and that they had given him several units when he arrived. This angered my husband a great deal but I said nothing. Secretly, I had hoped the doctors would give him blood despite our wishes if a transfusion could save his life. The doctor said they restarted his heart twice and that gave us a glimmer of hope but twenty minutes later, with tears in his eyes, the doctor said they couldn't restart his heart a third time ? he had died.
My husband and my two other sons and I cried and cried and cried. I have never known such anguish and physical pain! I wanted to die. The pain was unbearable. I kept thinking, "Would he have lived if he got blood at the first hospital?" But Jehovah says we must not save our lives with blood. I thought hard, how could it be that my loving God would demand the death of my son if blood could have saved him? What kind of God was I worshipping and giving honor too? A spiral of profound change began in my life because now I was not sure what I had just spent the last 30 years of my life doing. Wasn't God suppose to care for his people? It seemed to me at that point that our God was killing his followers by this restriction of life saving blood.
When you see your child lying wrapped in a white sheet, their pale lifeless face - there is no comfort. I will be forever carrying that picture of my son in my mind - wearing the face of death. No longer smiling and laughing, hollering out MOM when he wanted something. I still remember the faces of his brothers and his Dad, the aching pain deep into every fiber of our beings hurting. No words can touch that place where your heart is dying when your child dies. The hope of the resurrection means nothing when you can't see or touch the living-breathing child that filled your life with joy. Never seeing them smile at you, laugh with you, or give you a hug ever again in the days to come. Never hearing them say, ?I love you? again. I've suffered pain, but nothing compared to the pain of losing my beloved son. Your whole body becomes sickened with the most horrible physical pain one can feel. I've suffered pain, but nothing compared to the pain of losing a child.
I pray that any Jehovah?s Witnesses who has children and reads this will never have to face such a loss such as mine. A loss that can be prevented if they have a true understanding of what the Watchtower Society is asking them to sacrifice. After my son had died, I realized my nagging doubts about the Watchtower?s blood policies needed to be fully investigated. Hadn't I just lost a child for these purportedly God given laws I had lived by for 29 years?
I soon learned that over the years the Witnesses have changed many teachings about blood and that the Governing Body was about to change more of its blood doctrines. Why are some parts of blood permitted when others are not? Where did they find this in the Bible? In addition, if the Bible says nothing about transfusions, how can the Governing Body say with certainty that blood transfusions are wrong in Jehovah's eyes? How could I forgive those men for my son's death? In my opinion, the men of the Governing Body have the blood of many innocents on their hands. They who taught us falsely in God's name are accountable to him.
My heart is completely broken - my child is dead. I beg of you who read my story, don't let this happen to you. Educate yourself now before you are faced with a similar tragedy. If any child can be saved by their parents thinking now rather than after they lose their child, perhaps my son's death will not have been for nothing.
This is published at AJWRB.ORG in an effort to educate the public and encourage Jehovah's Witnesses to think before giving up the life of their beloved family members.
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This is my story folks, I share it at ajwrb.org. I loved Jehovah and Jesus passionately. I had dedicated my life exclusively to preaching what I thought was truth about God, the universe, and the salvation of man kind from the wicked forces that lived among us. Little did I know I had been decieved by the very organization I trusted to protect and represent my God Jehovah back then. They failed me, they failed my entire family. They (the leaders or Governing Body) were in part responsible for my son's death and it was all for nothing I trusted them.
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Satan was at my front door when I got home today...
by Confucious inbut my girlfriend who was never a dub, bought a pumpkin and set it out on the front door.
at first, i was like, "omg.
it's a pumpkin and we're almost in october!!!
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Balsam
That's cool your realizing all you were taught is just bull droppings. LOL
I've been passing out Halloween candy and putting up Halloween decorations at my front door now for a couple of years. The first year I just could not do it, as I still thought there was demons and satan involved in it. Well I finally got free of it and I have fun with it now. I've thought of dressing up this year to pass out candy. Would be kinda Cool. Goodness it can be as much fun for the adults as the kids I think. I sure love seeing all the little kids dressed up and so excited.
Ruth
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72
Rationalism and religion
by Narkissos ini've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .
we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.
reason always works from presuppositions.
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Balsam
Karen Armstrong (she is a bible historian) wrote a book that I've found enlightening called "The Battle for God". It is a study of the three main religious thoughts of Judism, Christianity, and Islam. Her thoughts are that when people began to look at things from a scientific reasoning gradually over the centuries it threatened the Mythos of established Religions and how they looked at who, and what God was all about. Mondernality as it progressed put more emphasis on science and reason and question more and more the idea of God because it did not fit the rational world of the scientists down through the ages. Science even became another religion to some degree as religious people were pressured to recognize the rational explainations for life. Like evolution.
She speaks of the fear of annilation too, of losing idenity in a world that is fighting wars all around them. Fundamentalist religions of which we are still affected sprang up in the late 19th century, which is when Russell began is questioning and evaluation of bible thought. The Millennialism or looking for Armaggedon was very strong in that period of scientific exporation that was advancing more quickly than people could mentally and emotionally adjust to. The idea of the Rapture came up then as people looked for the end to come. In fact there was a morbid yearning for the world to come to an end because the uneducated working class were becoming poorer and the richer more educated becoming richer. Education was not equal for everyone, and the march of the modern world was frightening to many people who craved the old familar ways. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and many more started in this time period. Some like the JW's and the Mormons seemed to thrive as they looked to Christ to bring destruction of world and save them. People felt afraid. People fear now, but not so much of the modern world but more of the terrorist that still live in their fundamentalist minded religions of the world. When people are afraid they can create even imaginary enemies, and conspiracys. People crave certainty, and with Jehovah's Witnesses the had an explaination for everything. The provided order to a chaotic world. Thus their appeal in Ms. Armstrongs opinion. The terrorist fear the anilation of the fundamental Islamic world that is being encroached by the modern world.
Karen Amstrong has written some other interesting book like "A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam " We often wonder about the way religion came about, and why it progressed as it did. These are interesting books to read if you have an interest in religions of the world.
Ruth
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CAN YOU HANDLE THE TRUTH??
by Terry inthe truth!
is there a greater value anywhere?
knowing what's what and what's not may be the most important thing humans can know.
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Balsam
Isn't it amazing how neatly the JW's packaged up that word TRUTH and took it for their own. Even the Mormons don't use it as much as JW's do. I know everyone here struggled with using that word when we finally left the witnesses. It was like trying to stop myself from cursing when I became a JW years ago. Well after lots of correcting myself I finally stopped using that to easily used word truth finally in reguard to the JW's. Boy was it a struggle though.
Now I cringe when I even hear anyone use it in reference to something they believe. LOL
Ruth
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EMOTIONS; DO WE UNDERSTAND THEM?
by Terry incause and effect 101. .
obi wan kenobe tells luke skywalker: "trust your feelings, luke".
listen to people say they will: "go with my gut feeling".
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Balsam
I trusted my gut feeling and joined JW religion. I was wrong. I trusted my gut feeling and married a man whom I didn't love because I thought he would make a good partner. So no I don't think we can go just on gut feeling. Some knowledge, thought, investigation is always warned.
Now with my second husband I checked him out. I had a good gut feeling about him, but backed it up with some reseach on him. That combination has proved to much more sound so far. So this is how I feel now. Gut is good, if backed up by though investigation proves to be in harmony with gut feeling.
So gut feeling alone is not necessarily good. It is nothing more than a roll of the dice.
Ruth
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22
Jws and smoking...
by Bryan inwhen was it that the gb decided witnesses could not smoke?.
thanks in advance,.
bryan
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Balsam
I started studying with JW in 1971, and got baptized in 1972 and they were talking then about making smoking a disfellowshipping offence. By the end of 1972 beginning of 1973 it was offical. I do remember they gave 6 months for smokers to beat the habit. I remember a couple who were new to the JW and newly baptized they had to quit or be disfellowshipped. They quit but it was very very hard.
I wonder now where in the bible did the get the policy to disfellowship for smoking. The bible don't even mention smoking at all, then to make it a disfellowshipping offence is just bizarre. Then they made growing tobacco a disfellowshipping offence. There were farmers here who really suffered financial set backs because of the policy in the mid to late 1970's.
Anyone what a cigarette????? I picked up smoking right after I got disfellowshipped. Have sense quit, it seemed like a waste of money to me and I didn't enjoy it once the novelty wore off. LOL
Ruth
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32
Other Religions
by rain insomething i thought of as i was reading through the posts:
i have read through various posts where it has been said that some feel that jws are not the organisation or people of god.
therefore, has anyone after leaving the jws joined another religion?
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Balsam
Terry I think your example was perfect. I didn't realize it though, since I had never been in love passionately. When I married my husband we were friends, and thought we might make a go of it being married. No love involved, respect is all . But I did fall in love with the Jehovah Witness form of religion. I was passionate about to the point of being sickening when I started studying. When I learned that the WTS was not what it appeared 29 years later,it was like finding out my husband was in love with men and not me. It was instant turn off. Oh by the way my ex is not gay, it is just an extreme example of how I felt. I felt betrayed by the WTS in every way. My rage eventally calmed down and now I just view it as a wasted time. A lesson learned.
As for turning to other religions, yes I did go on a quest that proved fruitless so far. My skeptical mind keeps me at arms length of it as I investigate each one throughly. It is quite interesting though, the research. No more passionate love affairs with religion for me anymore.
Ruth
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32
Ever met high ranking JW and felt uneasy
by AlanB inthis came up in another topic and feel it needs a topic of its own.
does anyone else have experiences of meeting (cant use the word 'brothers')men from high up in the borg and felt uneasy about it.. alanb wrote.
i was at twickenham many years ago (about 20) and went to the admin area to get info about serving where the need was great (great plan that turned out to be) anyway there were two elderly yet autstere brothers standing at the steps to the main office area looking as though they owned the place, they had a real air of seniority and importance about them, i have no idea who they were, yet sense they were senior one was english the other american.. .
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Balsam
Wow that sister is spooky,
Lizzard eyes?????? For heavens sakes, I sure hope not anywhere. That David Icke site is very weird.