Partakers in 2005: 8524 Increase: 234
You silly postates,
THIS IS NEW LIGHT! THE RESURRECTION HAS BEGUN! WELCOME ALL 234 RECONSTITUTED MEMBERS!
ringo5
JoinedPosts by ringo5
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59
2006 WorldWide Service Report
by Midget-Sasquatch inhere it is scanned straight from the feb 1 2007 wt:.
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5103/rep01dc4.jpg.
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/3761/rep02xh5.jpg.
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ringo5
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Faders: Would you prefer attention from the elders or not?
by ringo5 inthis question may produce some flaming, but so be it.
i've noticed many are freaked out, annoyed, worried, or simply felt harrassed when faced with the prospect of a visit from the elders when trying to fade.
others, or at times the same ones, complain that they recieved no inquiry from them at all or very little.
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ringo5
This question may produce some flaming, but so be it. I've noticed many are freaked out, annoyed, worried, or simply felt harrassed when faced with the prospect of a visit from the elders when trying to fade. Others, or at times the same ones, complain that they recieved no inquiry from them at all or very little. I know I'm happy if they never show up at my door again, and I'll admit there was at time I was worried they would come over and inquire of my beliefs, but not anymore. What would you prefer?
Discuss...
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Yahweh Loves Children! (warning: some sarcasm present)
by ringo5 inwhenever i feel myself slipping into a good mood, i can always do some good ol' testament reading, and follow it up with a chaser of wts spin.
it's a sure-fire way to fuel the apostate-fire that's a' brewing inside.. the account of david and bathsheba, while basically a good sex yarn, gets real sick and twisted at the end, and guess who is the sick and twisted surprise star?
yahweh!
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ringo5
Whenever I feel myself slipping into a good mood, I can always do some good ol' testament reading, and follow it up with a chaser of WTS spin. It's a sure-fire way to fuel the apostate-fire that's a' brewing inside.
The account of David and Bathsheba, while basically a good sex yarn, gets real sick and twisted at the end, and guess who is the sick and twisted surprise star? Yahweh! Yah and Weh!
You all know the basic plot, righteous David, the royal peeping tom, starts off looking at Bathsheba a bathin', gets a royal woody, decides he wants some of that, and does. Unfortunately, the royally educated King does not practice safe sex, and bingo-bongo she gets pregnant. Enter the poor sap of the story, Uriah. Kingy tries a couple schemes to get him to sleep with his wife to cover up the pregnancy (apparently Uriah wasn't in the mood or sumpthin'), but failing that, sends him to the war front for a certain death. The deed being done , he soon sends for the bathin' beauty and marries her in some manner.
The months pass, and the baby finally shows up. Here comes the star of the show, Yahweh, and he's a little disappointed in David. The bible doesn't go into detail why it took this long for him to act, but you know how god is with time and all. Anywho, you know some body's gonna pay, but you'd never guess who! Alrighty, mighty, maybe you would. Who's the only innocent person left in the story? That's right, the baby! Good thinkin' oh smitey one! That'll learn David, and the baby sure won't get the chance to screw up either!
Never preferring a merciful death when a drawn out painful one would do, ol' Yahweh smites the kid with an illness. For 7 days David fasts, apparently hoping that Yahweh would be merciful and spare the child, but alas someone has to die.
The story also has an interesting epilogue. When David finally finds out the baby is dead, he observes the proper 30 second mourning period, has a nice bath, some bread, and goes to help Bathsheba cope with the loss. Now perhaps we will be able to see David's softer side, the sensitive and righteous man that made god love him so much.
(2 Samuel 12:24) 24 And David began to comfort Bath-she´ba his wife. Further, he came in to her and lay down with her.
Wha? "Hey baby, I got the cure for your blues right here, a session with my royal staff..."
A little confused, faith shaken perhaps? Don't worry, let's consult the Watchtower bound volumes to show us what we must have missed, being the uninspired, unholy, sinful humans we are...
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w608/1pp.479-480 Questions from Readers***•
How can Deuteronomy 24:16, which says, "Children should not be put to death on account of fathers," be harmonized with the fact that the offspring of the adulterous relation between David and Bath-sheba died due to their sin, as shown in 2 Samuel 12:14?—J.B., U.S.A.The law, as stated at Deuteronomy 24:16, shows that fathers were not to be put to death for their sons nor were sons to be put to death for their fathers. In man’s administration of justice each was to die for his own sin, and not drag innocent relatives down with him. In this particular case of David and Bath-sheba neither of them had a right to the child and so there was no injustice in their being deprived of it. Besides, as an uncircumcised, unnamed infant it had not as yet developed any personality pattern or consciousness so as to appreciate life. Then again, Bath-sheba could have been stoned to death for her adultery, in which case the unborn child would also have perished. However, as previously noted in TheWatchtower, David was shown mercy because of the Kingdom covenant, which Jehovah had made with him. Nevertheless, to drive home the fact of Jehovah’s displeasure he let the child die, which was a very severe blow to King David. Two similar instances are recorded in David’s life: One was in connection with the death of Uzzah, who tried to steady the ark of the covenant; the other was the destruction of tens of thousands of Israelites because King David presumptuously and proudly determined to number the hosts of Israel. (1 Chron. 15:13; 21:1-27) Such records as these magnify the supremacy of Jehovah God and underscore the words: "He [God] doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"—Dan. 4:35, AS.
Just to summarize reasons said baby deserved to die:
1. Neither parent had a right to keep the baby. (insert supporting scripture here)
2. Baby was not circumcised. (just in case you were wondering when a baby would be circumcised, it was 8 days. Thus if it had managed to last another day, this reason would have disappeared. It's all about the numbers with Yahweh, remember that)
3. Baby is being called Baby because of the third reason, it had no name. Which also means no personality or consciousness so as to appreciate life. (don't try to bring up abortion, that's a different part of the Bible, and remember, the Bible does not contradict itself)
4. Hey, it could have died much sooner if the letter of the law had been followed, by stoning Bathsheba. Thus it was shown much mercy.... moving right along...
5. What better way to punish David, than to kill the one thing that would remind him of his misdeed?
6. Aren't 5 reasons enough? Who are you to even ask Yahweh? You should feel ashamed for even asking, infidel.
Feel better?
Actually, I do now , a little.
Ringo5
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If we were in Bible times, I would be stoned...(by my family)
by megsmomma ini was just researching some things and saw an article scan from 4-15-88 watchtower.
it talks of an unrepentant "wrongdoes", like a son who was a drunkard and glutton, and if he was unrepentant when brought before the judges, his parents would have a part in executing him.
my mom had said to me last time she was here..."it's a good thing we are not in bible times, you would be stoned!
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ringo5
Sorry to hear your mom could say such things, it's probably an attempt to hurt you born out of frustration with the predicament she find's herself in, although that's no excuse. But I find it hard to believe she has actually imagined herself doing it.
You could ask her, how she would feel if a mother in her community actually carried out such an act, say for instance, maybe her daughter was unable to yell for help while being raped because of being paralyzed with fear, as this also was punishable by stoning. This woman also claimed that she was just following God's commandments. Would she feel a kinship to such a woman? Or possibly question that woman's sanity?
It's not hard to trace back this hard line attitude to the WTS,
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w52 11/15p.703 Questions from Readers***Questions
from Readers•
In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?— P.C., Ontario, Canada.We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. "Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee."—Deut. 13:6-11, AS.
Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof.
You can almost feel their disappointment while reading this, if it wasn't for the law of the land and that hippie Jesus, every Kingdom hall would have it's own quarry for these special occasions...
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Here's an idea....
by LemzaLady ingreetings, people who know nothing about jws.
i have a question.
are you blogging this site because you are bored or want to feel special, because it certainly cannot be for anything positive you might have to share with others.. i have been associated with jws for 30+ years.
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ringo5
Feel better now?
P.S. You may want to edit your name out of your post, this being a public forum, you don't want that info in the wrong hands.
Just some agape advice...
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This is very exciting for me... but I need your help...
by misguided ini had a chat with my mother the other night...it was "business" as she just retired.
but i took the opportunity to tell her about the russell graphing his dates to pyramid measurements and told her to look at studies in the scriptures vol iii, 1904 edition would give a 1881 date, but the 1910 edition would give the 1914 date.
i know my grandmother has these books in her library...and she lives with them, so my mom can look them up and see the "truth.".
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ringo5
This is one of their most wishy-washy interpretations of scripture I know about. It may not seem like an earth shattering subject, but the amount of times they vacillate back and forth and all the while maintaining their dogmatic tone (not very discreet-like), speaks volumes about how carelessly they throw their assertions about, seemingly without regard for the intelligence of their readers , or in their view, the author of this book they claim to respect.
Who is the One who is coming Rev 22:12
The Finished Mystery 1917….. Jesus
1:8. I am THE Alpha and I AM ALSO THE Omega .— Alpha is the first letter, and Omega the last letter, of the Greek alphabet.The Beginning and the Ending .— "Our Lord's great honor is shown in that He was not only the first of God's creation, but the last. From this we are to understand that the great Jehovah did not directly employ His own power in creating either men or angels; but that He delegated His power to His Only-begotten Son."— Z.'93-115. Saith the Lord GOD .— But not the clergy; they will have none of this doctrine.Which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty .— "It is since His resurrection that the message has gone forth— 'All power in Heaven and in earth is given unto Me.' (Matt. 28:18.) Consequently it is only since then that He could be called
22:12. [And] behold, I come quickly.— See Rev. 16:15; 22:7, 10, 20. The Lord Himself becomes the speaker.And My reward is with Me, to [give] BE GIVEN every man.— Every man in Christ.According as his work [shall be] IS.— The Church's work is practically finished. The reward is given on the basis of the work already done, in character development and in the natural outgrowth of that development— works.
22:13. I am Alpha and Omega, THE FIRST AND THE LAST, the Beginning and the End, [the First and the Last].— "Our Lord tells us over and over again (See Rev. 1:8, 11, 17; 2:8; 3:14; 21:6), that He is the Beginning and the Ending, the First and the Last, of the creation of God."— Z.'93-115.
FM337
22:16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.— All down the Age the Church has had this Message; all down the Age holy men of God have sought to understand its mysteries; all down the Age it has remained a closed book. But now the Mystery of God is finished; and the object of keeping the book closed is accomplished. God wished the world to know when the time for the complete removal or error and for the establishment of His Kingdom would come; and so He enables the last members of His Church to give the Message.
*** w52 4/15 p. 242 The Field of Bible Prophecy…Jehovah
Jehovah is the great Author and Finisher of his works, and this is so indicated in Revelation 1:8 (NW), where it says: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says Jehovah God, ‘the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.’” Only Jehovah God knows the end from the beginning and therefore can foreknow future events in accord with his purposes. (Isa. 46:9, 10, AS
*** w55 7/1 p. 387 Christ’s Coming an Academic Question? …..Jesus
Jesus associated his return with the rewarding of his followers. Said he: “If I go my way and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you home to myself, that where I am you also may be.” And again: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is.” Paul understood it this way, for he wrote: “I have fought the right fight, I have run the course to the finish, I have observed the faith. From this time on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not only to me, but to all those who have loved his manifestation.”—John 14:3; Rev. 22:12; 2 Tim. 4:7, 8, NW.
w67 11/15 p. 680 Make Up Your Mind Now as to Whom You Will serve..Jehovah
Jehovah God himself next speaks to John, revealing the critical situation, the extreme danger if any one of God’s anointed ones becomes lax in the least way toward righteousness. Jehovah says: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is.”—Rev. 22:12.
*** w67 11/15 pp. 679-680 Make Up Your Mind Now as to Whom You Will Serve ***
All these publications have received worldwide distribution and have not been revised or altered to please the religious beliefs nor the customs and practices of different peoples of earth. No, the unadulterated truth of the prophecy has been proclaimed to all.
*** w76 11/15 p. 700 A Revelation—of Jehovah’s Will and Purposes ***Jesus
Again, those observing the words of this prophecy are pronounced “happy.” Then the invitation is given to all who hear to take the water of life free. And those who would add to or take away from the words of this prophecy are warned of the consequences. Upon hearing Jesus promising to come quickly, John replies, “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”—Rev. 22:7-21.
*** g78 8/22 p. 28 Who Is “the Alpha and the Omega”? *** Jehovah
Finally, at Revelation 22:12, 13, we read: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” This quotation appears among others that are ascribed to an angel and to Jesus Christ. Before these words are quoted in the book of Revelation, the angel who was instrumental in presenting the revelation to the apostle John spoke. (Rev. 22:8, 9) Then, after the quotation that begins with Revelation 22:12 and ends with the words of verse 15, we find the statement: “I, Jesus, sent my angel.” (Rev. 22:16) Since the context does not necessitate our attributing the words of Revelation 22:12, 13 either to the angel or to Jesus, they could have originated with another speaker. Consistent with the rest of the book of Revelation, “the Alpha and the Omega” must be the Almighty God. He is the One who comes in the capacity of a judge to reward and to punish individuals according to their works.
*** w78 10/1 p. 15 “Keep on the Watch” ….Jesus
6 Also, in his final revelation concerning “the things that must shortly take place,” Jesus again stresses the suddenness with which he comes:
“I am coming to you quickly . . . I am coming quickly. Keep on holding fast what you have.”—Rev. 2:16; 3:11.
“Look! I am coming quickly. . . . Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me. . . . Yes; I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:7, 12, 20)
In response to these last expressions of our Master, surely each one of us joins with the apostle John in saying: “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”
*** w88 6/15 p. 20 Detest Utterly the World’s Disgraceful Course …Jehovah
Listen to how God himself describes, in his last recorded words in the Bible, the outcome for those who serve him and for those who do not: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. . . . Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority to go to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.”—Revelation 22:12-15.
1988 Rev Climax
*** re chap. 44 p. 316 Revelation and You ***Jehovah6 Jehovah, the King of eternity, now addresses readers of Revelation for the last time in the prophecy, saying: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority to go to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.”—Revelation 22:12-15.
*** re chap. 44 p. 319 Revelation and You ***Jesus
15 Jesus now adds a final word of encouragement: “He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’” (Revelation 22:20a) Jesus is “the faithful and true witness.” (Revelation 3:14) If he bears witness to the visions of Revelation, they must be true. Both he and Jehovah God himself repeatedly stress the fact that they are coming “quickly,” or soon, Jesus here saying that for the fifth time. (Revelation 2:16; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20)
*** w99 12/1 p. 19 Be Happy Readers of the Book of Revelation ***Jehovah
19 Jehovah himself states: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is.” (Revelation 22:12)
*** w53 1/1 p. 31 Questions from Readers ***
So we must be reasonable. When we see an expression that is applied to Jehovah several times in its unlimited sense, and then come across it again but not specifically indicated as applying to Jehovah, we cannot become flighty and switch the expression to Christ Jesus; and especially when we note that it is applied elsewhere, not in its unlimited sense, but only with definite limitation of meaning. Trinitarians try to capitalize on this expression to show it was used indiscriminately for either God or Christ, and in this way show God and Christ are the same. But logic and reason do not allow this, no more than do many other texts in the Bible.
*** w76 5/15 297-8 Preaching Christ-Through Envy or Goodwill? ***
It is a serious matter to represent God and Christ in one way, then find that our understanding of the major teachings and fundamental doctrines of the Scriptures was in error, and then after that, to go back to the very doctrines that, by years of study, we had thoroughly determined to be in error. Christians cannot be vacillating—‘wishy-washy’—about such fundamental teachings. What confidence can one put in the sincerity or judgment of such persons?
*** re chap. 44 p. 317 Revelation and You ***
After their death as humans, they gain entrance into New Jerusalem by resurrection. The 12 angels allow them in, while keeping out any who practice lies or uncleanness though claiming to have a heavenly hope
*** w59 10/1 p. 607 Questions from Readers ***
Questions from Readers
• Who are the writers of the publications of the Watch Tower Society, and what are their educational qualifications?—M.D., U.S.A.
The literature published by the Watch Tower Society is published in the name of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Regardless of who may write certain articles, they are checked carefully by members of the governing body before they are published; so they are properly viewed as coming from the Society
Ringo5
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--- A Question for ALL Atheistic ex-Dubs----
by gordon d inwhich child is wiser?
while starting a hunt for easter eggs one child runs to a big tree and finds nothing then that childs brother says, go look under that rock i promise youll find one there!
the child throws down their basket and says, i give up!
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ringo5
I enjoyed my egg, but alas I can't prove it because I've eaten it.
Howdya like them eggs?
There are ways to measure the sulphur content of the hot air you exude!
Ringo5
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Should I leave the WTS?
by HamiltonPeppers inafter hearing the coverups and scandals, im thinking about leaving the wts for good.
while reading all of these coverups, i felt like my wife just cheated on me with my brother.
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ringo5
There are things you can do to avoid putting unnecessary stress on yourself or your family. This thread may help you http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/34518/1.ashx to formulate a plan.
If you are looking for more real info on how the WTS works, check out "Crisis of Conscience" By Ray Franz. Your local library should be able to get it for you.
Thanks for the information Lady Liberty. Right now im not sure what to think. Im really mad right now.
This is natural, we all went through that stage, some to a greater extent than others. You may feel like venting as you learn the truth about the "truth", but I would recommend doing that here for the time being, until you have a plan that you've thought through fully. Otherwise, the reaction of your friends and family may be similar to this...
Good Luck,
ringo5 -
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ringo5
I think that Avi is looking for more than respect here...
Throw the man a bone, ladies!
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Wisdom and folly
by Narkissos ini've been thinking about this topic for some time.. wisdom and folly.
sages and prophets in the bible texts and the wider ancient near eastern world.
apollo and dionysos in greek tradition.
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ringo5
While you’re waiting for more ex-converts to post, I will share my thoughts, even though I was raised as a witness.
Perhaps for many people, the categorization of the world around them is an attraction. While I’m not familiar with all the examples you provided, it seems the common thread is a tendency for black and white thinking. This can create a comfort zone for people that includes:
1. An apparent goal or purpose in their life, structure
2. Decision-making guidelines for all aspects of life (or even decisions already made for you)
3. Community of like minded people for support
4. Easy way to identify threats to you and your family’s well beingMost likely, this would probably sound like wisdom to people whose lives felt crazy or folly to them, in a relative sense.
As regards your second question , it is interesting no one has thus far admitted to pursuing any kind of folly after giving up the “truth”, even though we know they are out there. I’ve tried looking for truth, and failing that, at least some reason in science. I am enjoying catching up on my missed education, but also trying to enjoy some folly on the side. i.e. bungee-jumping, paragliding, or more horizontal pleasures......
such as body surfingCheers, Ringo5
Edited to add,
I tended to consider as terribly shallow, long before I realised it was crap.
I enjoyed seeing you write a four letter word
Living by faith instead of rationally planning for the future.
I think this may have started me out, since I couldn't live by faith or rationally plan for the future, I became depressed and couldn't figure out why I was starting to feel "crazy".
They'd sooner leave for something crazier than for something more "sensible". Even if they are the minority it's still something to ponder.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what brand of crazy might appeal to this minority, anything that is less toxic? Would that approach work?
