Sure did!
You could say I gave them about every chance they had a right to expect and then some. Although I've never been DF'd, I have been shunned. I was cheated out of wages by several of the JWs I worked for. And there were other things. At the end, I finally realised that God wasn't going to clean that Rat's nest up. which said to me they weren't really his organization. So I stopped going.
Forscher
Forscher
JoinedPosts by Forscher
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22
Did You "Wait On Jehovah" & Get Disappointed?
by minimus inthe watchtower's cure-all for any injustice or question is to "wait on jehovah".
have you had any experience showing that "waiting on jehovah" is useless??
?
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Forscher
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JW interpretation of bible
by osmosis insay, for example, you ask a jw about the book of genesis, and about the seven days, we all know what they say, that it's in "god time" which means 1 day = 7000 years, by their reckoning.
does this particular argument have any validity?
to me it seems like an "escape hatch", a tool to explain away what one could call certain "irregularities" in the bible.. they seem to think they can cross-reference any one part of the bible with any other as serves their ideological agenda.
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Forscher
The Watchtower interpretation has its roots in dispensationalism, a mainstay of the Advent movement and many Evangelical groups. The thought is that the Bible divides history into various ages, or dispensations, which are further subdivided into various era like the "patriarchal age", the Gospel age". etc.. I am not sure who first taught that idea, though it appears that Miller taught a form of it in the 1830s-40s. Most works I've read attribute it to the Evangelical movement and try to place its begining a little later with Moody and his associates.
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Council of Nicaea / Arius / Constantine and the Bible
by MissBehave ini've been reading up on the constantine's involvement in the compilation of the bible at the council of nicaea.
as well as the ousting of arius because of his "controversial" beliefs.
it's been many years since i've read any watchtower literature...anyone know what the jw's believe / teach / preach regarding this subject.
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Forscher
In addition to your other research, you may want to read the book, "When Jesus Became God." I will include the Amazon link at the bottom. The writer ( a jewish man) was given amazing access to the Vatican's library...which is very guarded. The fight regarding the divinity of Jesus between the eastern and western portions of Christianity is what almost detroyed it. That is why the Catholic church so guards these documents...it could possibly happen again.
Regardless, I think you would enjoy this book.
I would like to second that recommendation. Dr. Rubenstein is not only a Jew, but also a Sociologist who teaches conflict resolution and public affairs. His specialty is religious conflict, so he doesn't have a dog in the trinitarian fight itself. That gives his writing an objectivity that is hard to find in other writings on the Arian/Nicene conflict. Basically, Rubenstein calls a spade a spade, and doesn't gloss over the failings of one side or another. It makes for fascinating reading.
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STALKED II
by general inas i was studying last night for organic chem the phone rang around 10:30 p.m. eastern as i predicted it would.
when i answered it was my mom on the other end, again as i predicted.
afterall, it was tuesday night, the night of theorcratic minstry school and the service meeting and of course i knew the elders were going to speak to my mom about the little incident out in the shaws parking lot.
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Forscher
So I will take your expressions of thanks and gratitude to some of my good friends ( some of them who are now in ROTC with me) who enlisted in the army right out of High School and saw action over in Iraq...it will mean lot to them..
By all means do so General. Check and see if your state has good anti-stalking laws. The elders made it clear to your mother that they intend to stalk you. If your state does have those laws and you spot any of the elders doing that, you may have grounds to press criminal charges. Your being a cadet preparing for military service may well open up another can of worms that I don't think the elders will much like since I am sure that that the military won't take too kindly to that sort of thing being done to one of their own in traing to be an officer. 9/11 made such things a whole lot more serious than they used to be.
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Moving Congregations. Am I Allowed To Read The Letter The Elders Write?
by Diogenes ini've just moved congregations (it's the easiest way to keep people off your back!
) and the elders have received the letter written about me.. i've asked to read it to make sure there are no inaccuracies but the elders have refused point blank saying i'm not allowed.. i'm certain that under the data protection act i am allowed.. does anybody have any thoughts on this?
could you point me to anything the society have said?
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Forscher
When my Dub son moved from one congregation to another, he asked the PO of the first congregation if he could see the letter they were sending. The PO told him that publishers do have the right to see that letter and arrainged for him to do so. When I requested to see my letter (the sending congregations were separate though in the same town, The brothers in my new congregation informed me that I was not allowed to see it. Later I told one of the elders who'd informed me of that (my notification of denial was given me by a committee of two), that I knew they'd not been truthful with me and that their denial told me what I wanted to know about that letter anyway. He sure didn't like that!
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JEHOVAH WILL SLOW IT DOWN IN HIS OWN TIME.......
by Mary inhow does a witness answer this?
if we are indeed living "deep into the time of the end", and if jehovah is going to speed things up, then why are the numbers of the organization getting lower with each passing year?
with the chart below showing their dwindling and embarassing figures, it's one of two things: either this organization does not have god's blessing, or the end must still be a long way off...........i've quoted a couple of captions from the literature......hmmm..... seems to me like they fit the description of babylon the great a little bit better than an organization that is being run by jesus christ.. *** .
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Forscher
How does a dub deal with that chart? Easy, I've seen the answer on another forum. They simply deny it is true!
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Pedophilia with 3-year old slave girls in the Bible!
by mike87 ingirls at the age of 3 were forced into sex in both the talmud and the bible.
also, the age consent in us and europe was as low as 10:.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/age3.htm.
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Forscher
if our Islamic wacko is still looking over the threads, I have a question for him to ponder: how old was Mohammed's last wife?
That was the best point on the whole thread Rex. Kudos to you!
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so..where we at
by KW13 inwill the society ever again make themselves a trap to fall into the future?.
will they just fix the mistakes of the past?.
i really hope they fall apart lol, is anything coming soon that should help kill 'em off?
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Forscher
KW, there is a process which most dictatorial organizations go through.
It is well illustrated by the life and death of the Soviet Union. First, there is a Charismatic leader, who is then followed by an autocratic leader or two. That, then, is followed by a self-perpetuating committee which comes to reflect an organization which becomes more and more bureaucratized. As the Bureaucracy becomes more and more entrenched and unresponjsive to change, flexibility is lost. The organization becomes less able to innovate and respond to crisis brought about by environment and time. then the whole thing implodes and come tumbling down around itself.
I am sure you can see Lenin, Stalin, and finally the Politburo in that description of the sequence of events. The story has occured so many times in history that I am not the first, by any means, to see it. An early Sociologist named Max Weber made a name for himself through writing about it.
The story starts with Russell, the charismatic leader. Then came the autocratic Rutherford, who turned it into a high control cult which broke away from the movement started by Russell. He was followed by the laurel and hardy team of Knorr an franz, who were toppled in a coup by the Governing body, which has become more bureaucratized and out of touch. We may not live to see the final implosion, but it is on the way.
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41
any one here gay
by alexjen in.
hi my name is alex and i was born in the truth and...i'm still in it.......i'm 15 and openly gay well at least at schooland to all my friends some who are also jw's well the reason for posting this is i wanted to knw if there were any other gay people here......if anyone wants to email me its [email protected].
i want like advice on how i should deal with this cause sometimes i feel this oppression(dont knw if i spelled that right) on being gay and also being a j.w theres this i'm not sure how to explain it....like you knw that when people in your congregation find out the ones you know all ur life are going to hate u cause ur gay............this i guess just makes me feel really sad........ kind of hoping that this made some sorta sence.................... i suck at spelling so if i miss spelled something sorry@_@
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Forscher
If you mean happy, then HELL YEAH!
Since I faded I feel like a load has come off my shoulders, even with the watching over one's shoulders. And I am having a ball exploring the possibilities! I know I irritate a few folks here, but I am a work in progress. One can't make an omlet without breaking a few eggs! I had a proffessor in college who used to say that no matter how much we try, not everybody will like us. So, I try to be as friendly as somebody who spent 30 years in a cult can be, and not worry about the rest overmuch.
As for what you were really asking, no, I am not. And I don't presume to stand in judgment of those who are. I still believe in a creator. I also believe that the Bible is his word. However, who you are and what you believe is between you and him as far as I am concerned. So you don't have to worry about this "fundie" being any part of any witch hunt.
I will give one piece of advise to the gays on this forum. Be careful of who your allies are. Virtually every strictly socialist regime has used the Gay community to help them come to power. Then they denied them the rights they promised them. One example was the National Socialist Party of Hitler. Hitler's brown shirts were run by men from the Gay community. When Hitler no longer needed them, he had them taken out and shot. When he established the Concentration Camps, Gays were rounded up and put in them, hence, the pink triangle. And the NAZIs were not the only radical left group to do that. To this day, homosexuality is against the law in China, the left-wing paradise. Gay folk go to prison there. So you folks be very careful, the radical left are not really the friends they cliam to be.
As for conservatives, the radical right fundies you keep hearing about are not the majority and are not likely to have the power they desire. You may not get all the things you want. But remember that the U.S. is a Christian country, and the majority of Christians are willing to live and let live within certain limts, which are not all that restrictive. Remember, the Supreme Court which gave you your recent victories is a majority conservative court, and a majority Catholic court at that! You have nothing to fear from the majority of Christians in this country. All of us need to fear the radicals on both sides of the spectrum. And that goes for the majority of Bible believing Christians as well. The radical minority fundies would just as soon cut my throat as yours!
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41
STALKED!!!
by general ini think you are all going to get a kick out of this, .
for those of you that don't know me, i have been out of the organization for almost 4.5 years but i have never been disfellowshipped nor have i disassociated myself.. last night after going out to a nice italian resturaunt with my girlfriend, father, and step-mom,( who never were part of the organization in the first place) my girlfriend and i said goodbye to them and we began the trip back to her place, which is 2.5 hours away.
before we got on the turnpike she said, "that she had to use the restroom and could i please stop off somewhere.
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Forscher
Welcome aboard General!
I can understand your desire for your Girl not to know about that part of your past. However, the incident has brought it into view, so it will have to be dealt with. The good news should that all you may have to do at this time is to tell her that you were raised in a cult (that is what it sounds like from the story), and left it years ago. You can probably say that the two assholes were local leaders of that cult who knew you and too stupid to realise that 5 years of not being there constituted a severance from the cult, so, they assumed they had some sort of authority over you. Tell her that beyond that, you are not really all that comfortable discussing that part of your life since growing-up in a high-control cult is not a very nice exprience. hopefully, she get the hint and be satisfied that you thought enough of her to reveal that much.
If you marry her, you'll have to eventually tell her more, but if she loves you, she'll let you do it at your own pace (I hope I've got it right Ladies, if not, feel free to be frank with us guys since our new friend needs good information to base his decisions on).
If the elders invite you to a JC, then they are not following the directions of the mother organization. They've seen enough to conclude that you've Da'd yourself from the organization and have no further need to speak with you. so more than likely you will hear from your mother that she cannot speak to you since you've been announced. If nothing along those lines happens, then you might want to be prepared to get a little more specific with your GF if you marry so that she won't be blind-sided by your mother's conduct. If it does happen, you may have to be prepared to tell her enough that she won't be blind-sided by the attitude of oyur JW relatives anyway.
That's the whole thing as I see it. Keep us posted General, for all our squabbling with each other in some of the threads, we are here for those are walking the same paths we are.
Forscher