<<We tried to make belief in the bible work, but found it to be like fitting a round peg in a square hole!>>
That's so true, Ranchette. I read and reread the bible HOPING, TRYING to find ways to piece it all together. To no avail. I always say the reading of the bible was my first awakening out of the truth. My so called "down fall".
And while I have beliefs that tend towards something "larger than ourselves" (perhaps nothing more than a collective consciousness--I personally connect to the feminine; what I call goddess), I always must fall back on this one, inescapable fact: "no one knows more about the unknown than anyone else". A very wise athiest friend of mine taught me that.
The key lies in scientific method. Christians have no concept of this. They have an agenda, and their very existance is based on this agenda, (to convert the world to their beliefs, and barring this, their god is going to kill all the rest of mankind) and this colors everything. This taints any kind of logical discussion or thought. Therefore, I do not even try. I have come to this conclusion: Humans are evolving (please, this IS IRREFUTABLE--see cover of TIME magazine last month-"How Apes Became Human"). I believe our evolution has become more mental and, yes I'll say it--spiritual. Some humans still need a "religion" with very simplistic answers to even the most complex questions (no matter HOW ABSURD THESE "ANSWERS" ARE)--and then a god to kill everyone who doesn't beleive in these answers. They also need the rigid structure of religion and ritual (btw, some of the MOST moral people I know are athiests).
Anyway, this does not make religionists less, per say. I say, let the people who need religion, have it. What I do not agree with AGENDAS, especially when they are propagated on the most innocent of humans, children. Which brings me to my next pet peeve, the dumbing down of the American education system. We cannot let the creation myth be taught, if we hope to advance as a species. In my case, my first biology class in 8th grade was the first eye opener to the logic of evolution.
Oh, enough of my soap box.
B.
"Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so many more believers than thinkers." --Bruce Calvert
Bridgette
JoinedPosts by Bridgette
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93
"Mire of atheism..."
by Julie in:i welcome those of your quality of character and refusal to sink into the mire of atheism or deep cynicism, .
i found these words to be so interesting.
i have seen posts (albeit few) that discuss the bible and whether or not it is of god.
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Bridgette
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Are you Possessed?
by peacepipe inwarning: though this is very long if you read as much as you can it may lead to some interesting conversation.. seriously, in my battle with good and evil in my life i have come to the conclusion that i am not meant to "know god" and that i was possessed sometime in my early life(ok not exorcist possessed but just possessed meaning "i'm not meant to get it/cut off from god")examples (yes, i realize these are only fictional portrayls but they show what i mean):.
1) there is an older movie called the rapture.
it stars david duchovny(pre x-files days)& mimi rogers(an occasional x-file charachter) anyhow she's the main character and it's about this:.
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Bridgette
Peacepipe,
*sigh* sweety, sweety, sweety--you admit to having watched Rapture? I'm kidding! I'm sorry.
I watched it (we actually own it) My husband, knowing my fundy past insisted I watch it. We got something totally different out of that film. Of course, bear in mind that my belief system which colors my interpretation is quite different. If I'd seen it as a JW, then my take on it might be totally different.
What I saw was a woman who, instead of failing some "divine commission" chose her humanness over what this blood thirsty god had to offer. SHE KILLED HER CHILD--just like Abraham was supposedly ready to do. In the end, she was glad to remain in limbo, versus, spending eternity with a god who basically demanded this of her. Anyway, I LOVE DAVID DUCHOVNY. hahahaha!!!
The universe, if you look at it objectively is not neatly divided into GOOD/EVIL. Look at nature. It's all about balance. You're not evil, and you're not possessed. I understand where you're coming from. It's because of what we're taught. I remember telling my mother as a young teenager that I was one of the fish that the angels kept throwing overboard. Not sure what the society teaches nowadays, but in those, (not THAT long ago! ;) that there were certain people that as the witnesses "fished in" the angels kept throwing overboard (there's a scripture). Meaning some just are not worthy of life. Now, don't you for one minute believe THAT! If you need to be a Jehovah's Witness, don't let ANYONE tell you or make you feel that you are unworthy.
I myself, am glad to know what I know now about nature, the universe, "god", if you will. I now see the glass as half full, instead of half empthy. I have peace.
Blessings on your journey, wherever it takes you.
Bridgette -
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one more reason to loathe the Society
by Richie intoday i called my daughter who has a 16 month-old son, so see how she is doing etc and at the same time was asking if i could see her and my grandson tomorrow afternoon... she said "why do you want to see us.., don't you know that you're disfellowshipped..you should know better".... well i told her incidentally that i am her father and a grandfather to her son, she responded by saying again that i am df'd and i am not going to the meetings anymore etc etc etc..... i started arguing with her that this was not right and then in the middle of the heated conversation i decided to just hang up on her as i had enough of this abhorrent mindset which is so similar to the bodysnatchers' mentality.... by the way, i was df'd 1 1/2 years ago for the reason that i stopped attending meetings..... i am cut to the heart, but then again after looking inside of me, i am a free man and not involved anymore with an unnatural lifestyle reserved for zombies.... :*) richie.
you are the music as long as the music last...............
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Bridgette
And on TOP of the fact that it sounds as if you were wrongly disfellowshipped--grandparents have rights, and can sue for visitation. You cannot keep your children from their grandparents. It's morally wrong, unless they are a danger to the children. I make sure that my daughter maintains a relationship with my mother who's a dub, I also make sure my daughter has contact with her paternal grandparents, even though I'm divorced from her father. It's my obligation as a mother to make sure she has her family ties.
I'm sorry for what you're going through. Sue or threaten to sue, if you need to. This is wrong. Your grandson has a right to know you.
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I'm not sure if this is helping me
by ballistic ini posted another comment about how angry i'm getting with the organisation.
the thing is, it is this and other message boards that are making me feel this way.
this is bad.
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Bridgette
Ballistic,
I set out from the ORG right away and made friends. People who didn't judge me, who laughed at my stupid jokes. REAL friends. As in Happy Hours every Thursday (that's like going to the pub). People calling just to say hi, check up on me; me calling them, getting invited over, having them over, our kids making friends. You know, normal stuff. Tomorrow I have a barbeque to go to. I never got invited anywhere in the ORG. So, I think you're going out to make friends in ACTUAL reality, is a GREAT IDEA!!! Every once in a while, though you may just feel the need to be with "your kind". NO, IT'S NOT ANOTHER CULT, but despite our differences, and despite the fact that there are some meanies aboard, we all have one thing in common that no one in the world has. This is actually good. I don't really want this in common with too many people, because like you, I hate for my past to consume me. I refuse to let it take anything more from me than it already has. It had my childhood, and my 20's, NO MORE.
Just keep an iddy biddy line open to us here.
THere's also another reason I like being here. I like to maybe help people in whatever way I can. You have a lot to offer too. But you're right about needing to make real friends. You'll find it most refreshing.
Peace,
B. :) -
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Upsetting dream---interpretations?
by Kat_ inokay, so i woke up this morning with a nervous lump in my stomach and feeling quite like a little lost child.
my dreams hardly ever affect me.
i am remember naeb's dream about a jade monkey and a dog and thinking--okay, maybe my dream can be interpreted as well?
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Bridgette
DC, you said: you "have had dreams or should i say nightmares, that i am attending the hall again, scary"
Now that's horror! *shudder*
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So Sad....
by StifflersErSlayersBrother inimagine this.. a little child,about 3 or 4, sitting there, looking around.... he leans over and sees his shoe is untied, he looks up at his parent who doesn't seem to care much, almost falling asleep, so he leans over and ties it all by himself for the first time!
he smiles proudly and looks up at his parent and tuggs on their shirt.
the parent looks down with anger and pinches the little boy on the arm real hard.
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Bridgette
Well, not one for pity parties, but I think this is very important, if it helps children. So, here's MY experience. You can post it anywhere you want if it helps one child. I used to get beat (not spanked, but BEAT) so badly, that even other abusive Jdubs felt sorry for me when they saw my mother jerk me up (even as young as 1 year old) adn hear her heals clicking furiously to the bathroom, or (god forbid) OUTSIDE (rural kingdom hall--screams could not be heard). I was not a bad kid. I AM NOT A BAD PERSON. I was terribly afraid and so shy I used to hurt, actually feel pain when spoken to (now I'm an extrovert). Finally, I remember, in the 80's when they started telling parents NOT TO BEAT (I mean "discipline") their children outside--wouldn't want worldly people to get the "wrong impression", would we? What's sad, is my my mother, the further she drifts from the org, is SO MUCH calmer. Can't help but think what life would've been like if she had never been contacted at the door that fateful day.
Anyway, when I was grown, and had my daughter, there was one hardline sister--another beater, who would always want to take my unruly infant "she knows what she's doing" (at 4 MONTHS! Give me a break!). My husband at the time was a dub, and used to spank her so hard (even as an infant) that he would leave marks. I remember the babysitter potty training her and seeing the marks. I DUMPED HIM AND THAT RELIGION. Got her and I into counseling, built a new life, career, have a happy, healthy marriage now without any abuse of myself, OR my daughter. And BTW, hwo seriously do you think elders, adn the powers that be would take my (watered down) hints and tales of abuse? NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That religion so burnt me on christianity.
I'm NOT a corporal punisher at all. We do very well reasoning, and taking away privileges, etc. I am so glad my daughter is NOT being raised that way. I got out when she was young.
And don't even get me started on the psychological abuse.
If there are any in the org, lurking about. I don't want to "bring down" your religion. You have a right to practice reverence in whatever path you've chosen. But for GOD'S SAKE, STOP HURTING YOUR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!! please. stop.
People are watching. GOD is watching. I can't imagine this is something that "would even come up into his heart". See Jeremiah when the Israelites took to burning their children alive.
Bridgette -
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Upsetting dream---interpretations?
by Kat_ inokay, so i woke up this morning with a nervous lump in my stomach and feeling quite like a little lost child.
my dreams hardly ever affect me.
i am remember naeb's dream about a jade monkey and a dog and thinking--okay, maybe my dream can be interpreted as well?
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Bridgette
Dear Kat,
I would just take a deep breath and relax. You're not crazy, and you're not doomed. You're brain is just working off mental/emotional toxins. You're subconscious is trying to work through what you were always taught by WTBTS, adn what you're now learning to be true: that you are a GOOD AND WORTHY PERSON. Stay with that thought. Please do not take it as any sort of prophetic dream if, for no other reason, that IF everything you had been taught as a DUB were true, jehovah does not speak to us through dreams. Now, I DO believein prophetic dreams, but trust me, this is just your abused psyche doing soem housecleaning and healing--so congratulations!
Be at peace. Only when I was out, did I find some badly needed peace. When I was in, I had THE WORST NIGHTMARES.
Love,
B. -
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Who Here Feel Strongly?
by ballistic ini feel so mad because of what i went through for the "truth" i just want to shout about it.
i'm not mad with the individuals, some of which are genuine, mostly good, and nearly all mislead.
i just view the whole organisation like a run away machine, gone crazy, dangerous.
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Bridgette
I agree, I think anger and resentment are VERY integral to the healing process. Especially when we were taught to "stuff" everything down (i.e., JEHOVAH'S PEOPLE ARE THE HAPPIEST PEOPLE ON EARTH--NOTHING WRONG HERE, EVERYBODY'S JOYOUS, AND HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY,---NOW REJOICE, DAMMIT!!!!) All of that gets built up after a while, when it finds an outlet---watch out!!! Just let the toxins flow out. Find a creative outlet, like drawing, writing, painting--even helping others, here is a good outlet.
I was fortunate that I worked through most of my anger while I was in. I used to draw the most hellacious, mecabre pictures you've ever seen. My ex husband wouldn't even look at them. I drew one called Armageddon with all of the dying souls crying in anguish. It was really the cry of my soul. I even won a contest one time in a magazine for a pic I did of a badly distorted face screaming called the scream within. I couldn't show it to any of my "Happy Witness" so called "friends" though, becasue it showed how tortured and angry I was inside.
Now I can't draw anything but flowers, children, and "fluff". Now that I'm happy and whole, I've lost my tortured artist edge!! Oh well it's WELL WORTH IT!!!
Love,
B. -
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Run WT Run
by silentlambs inmormon church settles lawsuit.
september 5, 2001. sex abuse lawsuit is settled by mormons for $3 million.
by gustav niebuhr.
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Bridgette
Dear Mr. Shilmer,
There are people who are so low on psychic energy that they literally must "feed" on others by drawing their energy. They are not evil, they are simply deplete. Most do not know WHAT or much less WHY they do what they do. They are just splintered, fractured souls. They draw on others by illiciting emotion in others. They do this by pouting, shaming, bullying (the org does this as a collective, I believe--they must feed on your shame, guilt and fear to feed the collective). It is a sickness. One of the favorite tactics of psychic vampires is to stir contentions, and anger, because anger is such a powerful energy source, and easy to gather. There is a huge difference between someone who likes to express an opinion, albeit an unpopular one, and an energy vampire. The challenge lies in recognizing the difference, and not bleeding your energy into a futile situation.
Madapostate, I am not calling you futile. I wish you some desperately needed peace and wholeness. Many of the points you make are valid, but get lost in the vitriole.
Love and blessings,
B. :) -
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satanism, witchcraft and devil worship. . . . . .
by DCs Ghost incontrary to popular belief and what society and the media will portray satanism, devil worship and witchcraft are 3 very independent systems of belief, .
sure, to those who are afraid of looking into books dealing with the occult, for fear of being possessed or what have you, i write this as a vent because it makes me laugh when i hear people assume that the three are the same, they aren't, .
and the reality is that even though the three get bunched up as the same, many times it is the ignorance of the practitioners which keeps the ignorance alive.
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Bridgette
S.S.
I believe in the need for solitude in spiritual progression. I myself, am somewhat of an extrovert, though. I've learned balance. Deepak Chopra in his book "how to know god" talks about being detached but engaged.
I just love people. But I have my moments where I have to swim to my deep waters (I'm a pisces) and "brood" for no reason, sometimes. I come back recharged.
I think Christians (esp. JW's) are desperately afraid of ever being still or alone. They need each other to reinforce their belief system, AND they hold to the old addage of empty minds invite the demons inside (demons, meaning freethought, methinks). I remember my dad telling me once, even though he was an elder that even Jesus needed to retreat to the mountains ALONE.We live in a beautiful world....lyrics from my favorite song from Coldplay: "Don't Panic" which is playing now.
Well, I'm off to actual reality now.
Bright Blessings all!
B.
p.s. dc, I hope in the next incarnation, we can have real, meaningful relationships with our mothers. What do you think we and/or they are supposed to learn here? I often wonder.