Seeker,
Your arguments are very valid. Your voice and others like it are very much needed at times such as this. I agree with the need to be cautious and watch closely what laws are eing passed. We live in dangerous times, indeed. Not only the physical threat we are facing, but the tendency of frightened people to needlessly give up their rights in exchange for a feeling of security. And teh ability for a despotic government to take advantage of crisis situations. However, this bears repeating: with more and more and MORE people attempting to peaceably share this planet, the lines between individual rights and community rights thin and get entangled at times. I cannot yell "Fire!" in a movie theatre. By the letter of a free society, this is a blatant violation of my freedom of speech. But it is for a greater, common good, that we cannot yell fire in a theatre. The fact that I have to wear an ID badge with my name, title and credentials facing the public (it's in our company by-laws) is technically invasive to my individuality and privacy (people know my name--sometimes that makes me uncomfortable), but I can guarantee you that you want to know what and who I am if I come at you with a size E needle as you lay in a hospital bed. Your right to safe healthcare, it has been decided, outweighs my need for anonyity. And don't even get me started on healthcare, which is very much socialized, and does in no way reflect our capitalistic ideals--because we decided that a human being's right to healthcare rfar outweighed the right of an individual to make a fortune healing the sick. I happen to think this is a good thing. *sigh* We live under and have adopted the philosophy of "Majority rules". If I want to make you wear an ID badge when you're canvassing my neighborhood with an agenda, and more citizens than not, agree with me, then, in theory, we should be able to prevail and have you wear an ID badge. America is very much a work in progress. I think balance is the key.
Pax,
B.
p.s. While we're at it--down with TELEMARKETERS!!! I'd even take JW's over them (if I absolutely HAD to make the choice)
Bridgette
JoinedPosts by Bridgette
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76
CNN mentions Jehovah's Witnesses Today
by ARoarer ini have been watching the news on cnn and happened to notice the news flashing across the bottom mentioning the state of ohio banning door to door work and jehovah's witnesses!
has anyone seen this?
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Bridgette
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Here's my story (I'm new here)....
by crownboy ini am a 4th generation witness (on both sides of the family) and indeed my entire family (save for the few who "fall away" in every family) are jehovah's witnesses.
my dad is an elder, my mom a regular pioneer and my two elder sisters the same.
my younger sister is 17 and still unbaptized, so therefore she is sort of a "black sheep" in our family and "spiritually weak" for not having already "taken the dip in the pool" (however, due to her overall open-minded nature, i am perhaps closest to her).
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Bridgette
Crownboy,
Yep, it was a questioning nature and a thorough reading of the bible that did it for me, also. Maybe it would be easier if we could check our brains at the door, but those pesky things just won't be stifled!
Your journey has begun. Much love and well wishes to you. I hope you continue to post here.
Pax,
Bridgette -
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Persuasion: Did we forget what we learned as JWs?
by larc inas jws we learned a lot about persuasion and how to get people to accept our ideas.
we had role plays on over coming objections.
we were taught how to anticipate typical questions and respond to them.
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Bridgette
I agree with Saint Satan (I think). That is, if what he's saying is: while we agree with the use of civility and cohesive argument, not all of us here have an agenda to recruit current JW's to the ExJW community. Some are here to heal, and some who are in this process, their words are angry and full of stuffed down emotion, which comes out after years as very vitriolic. They are healing. It's not pretty.
I personally have no agenda here. I like to listen and talk to others who've shared a similar life experience. I guess the closest thing to an agenda that I have is to force and keep the WTBTS honest with it's adherants, the governments under which they "work", and the public they seek to recruit. I could care less if someone wants to remain or become a witness or not, but if they talk to me, they're going to be fully informed about what they're in or getting themselves into.
I could definitely get on board with more civility, but don't care to join a recruiting campaign of JW's. Although, it's karmically appealing, I'll let the natural laws of Karma balance out all the ill effects that the WTBTS has wrought.
Pax,
B. -
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Moral question
by uncle_onion inyou decide:.
i have a moral question for you.
imaginary situation, but i think.
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Bridgette
Ooooh, I love the way you think, Budda Belly!
Seriously, I'd rescue him. I'd LOVE to see him brought to trial. I want to see NOT just HIM brought to justice, but his ideals judged and squelched in the world wide eye. I'd love for people to just open up dialogue about religous fanatacism, and begin to eradicate it once and for all. I think a trial (world tribunal, NOT U.S. justice system--we're too soft) of a religous nutball would be a good start.
Pax,
B. -
76
CNN mentions Jehovah's Witnesses Today
by ARoarer ini have been watching the news on cnn and happened to notice the news flashing across the bottom mentioning the state of ohio banning door to door work and jehovah's witnesses!
has anyone seen this?
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Bridgette
Seeker,
I can see why your little red flags are coming up. I am a great proponent of individual rights and freedoms. However, as our population grows exponentially, we're going to have to make some difficult choices between the rights of the individual and the community. If I have to choose, I choose my right to privacy over the rights of a religious/corporation, or any who have a political or economic agenda. I want to have the right to work in my yard unmolested by those who have an agenda. You wanna stop and say hi, that's fine with me--but don't approach me with an agenda--religious or otherwise.
I do not think it's out of line, either to have them register and ID themselves. I'm sorry if a few individuals have to go out of their way to accommodate this, but I wish to know who's at my door and what they're selling. And to answer the question posed by the attorney for the JW's to the court--YES! they are peddlers. They have all the earmarks of a Multi-level-marketing system with a religious overtone. It is very much about the selling and distributing of their literature, and constantly feeding itself with new recruits. Now, back to the ID--we ALL KNOW that JW's are highly discouraged from identifying themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses, when they peddle door to door. They are purposefully covert in their door to door operations in order to specifically bolster their recruiting system.
ID cards are no big deal. I have to wear one where I work. Beleive me, you want to know who people are and what credentials they have, where I work. Do we feel as though some human right has been violated? Probably by the textbook Libertarian, yes. But I've got no problem with wearing my little ID badge. It's just common sense.
Love,
B. -
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Family About to Disown Me
by Moridin inwell i finally got the guts to tell my mother that i had enlisted in the army.
she didn't say a whole lot to me, but she did tell my sister she was calling the elders and that when i was df'd she would have nothing to do with me.
i can't say that it suprises me too much, but i was hoping for more of an adult reaction.
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Bridgette
Moridin,
How about a mother's love? Usually far too strong and instinctual to be snubbed out by religious/corporate rhetoric.
Love and best wishes to you and all your lovely family,
B. -
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Jehovah Cancels New System Because of UN Stuff
by ISP inreuters.... in a surprise development today, jehovah, the god of the christian fundamentalist sect 'jehovah's witnesses' made a statement about the recent controversy regarding the watchtower bible and tract society(wts) and its ngo status.
the 'wts' has now dissassociated itself from its previous ngo connection but had held such a position for the past 9 years or so.
'i've had enough' said the diety, 'i just don't know what i am supposed to do with these people.
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Bridgette
ISP--that was soooo funny!! I woke hubby up with my laughing out loud.
"Thumbs up!" says Bridgette
"I laughed, I cried"....
p.s. what is Reuters for those of us on the other side of the pond? -
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JW Are Very Very Tolerant!!!
by D wiltshire injw are very very tolerant!!!.
i think most jw are very tolerant, for instance look at how tolerant they are of members who are child molesters, as long as they are loyal to the organization and dont have 2 witnesses to their crime, they are allowed to hold positions of trust (elder, ms, pioneer, ...).
a congregation in san diego, that i once was an elder in, after i left made a convicted child molester, who served prison time, a ministerial servant.. this toleration is exclusive though, to members and not that great for nonmembers, for let a clergyman or member of another religion be accused of child molestation, and to them its proof they are not being used by god, and are hypocrites.
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Bridgette
Yep, I'd say that just about sums it up, D!
Sad....but true
B. -
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Suggestion for GB to deal with current situation
by GermanXJW inthe current world situation and the wt dealings with the un result in some bigger problems the wt leadership has to solve.. firstly, the war.
an event as big as the attack on the wtc so that people say this has been an historic event comparable to the events of 1914: if this has not been prophecied in the scriptures what should be expected to be?
the wt's only chance is an application of the "pushing" between the king of the south and the king of the north.
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Bridgette
Trilobite,
Excellent points! I've tried to express these sentiments so many times, but couldn't articulate as you did.
I'm for them secularizing more and more and more until their chokehold on adherants is non-existant. oooh and the part about them becoming an NGO with strong emphasis on Human Rights--I love it!
I don't see them surviving as the world's populace gets ever more educated if they do not mainstream HARD and FAST.
Pax,
B. -
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Wonderful news! Thank you all!!
by freeman ini want to thank so many of you for giving me the ammunition i needed to initiate actions that i hope will save at least one of my two children from the cult of the wtbts.
i have been able to undertake some positive actions in no small measure because of all you people here.
some of you may recall from earlier posts that two of my boys friends were dis-fellowed and that i went ballistic when my kids told me they were not allowed to talk to their best friends because the society says we cant.
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Bridgette
Dear Freeman,
Good luck to you, honey. Love and rationale will rule the day. I loved what you told your son about even if he becomes a JW you would always love and NEVER shun him. I told my daughter much the same thing. She has NO desire to be a witness, but I wanted her to know that no matter what, she would have a CHOICE. and my love for her was not pendant on what or how she believes.
Keep us posted!
Love,
B.