Posts by Hellrider

36

praying for mass destruction and death

by Cognitive_Dissident in

so i was writing a paper the other day, specifically about the skewed world view that i had had as a witness, and i typed the following - .

pain, misery, strife, these were all things that used to prove to me that jehovah's witnesses were correct in their assessment of a dying world which was soon to be liberated/obliterated by the hand of god.

this "liberation" was something that i desperately longed for.

Hellrider

Carla, I`m sorry if I`m butting in here, but your post and situation sounds so interesting, I just wanted to give you some advice (if you really want to understand more of this, and get to the bottom of the thoughts of your husband on this):

"We don't know who will be". But to me this sounds like the view for the 'public'

You`re absolutely right. It IS the view for the public!

He doesn't really believe we will be destroyed. How is that possible? Does he figure because we are related we get off the hook? He seems unable or unwilling to process the info of the wt where it pertains to his loved ones.

...no, if he truly believes (and it really sounds like he does...), he doesn`t think you`re going to get off the hook. At least I don`t think so. Maybe he has a hope, deep down, that you will eventually embrace his truth, go to KH, get baptised etc. He`s probably put a lot of thought into this, and knows that you`re not going to get off the hook!! I am pretty sure he doesn`t believe that you will, and if he ever says so, its probably also a "view for the public"! I`m sorry to have to tell you this, but that`s what i think. And if you have children under the age of 14-15, he`s probably betting on that they get to enter paradise with him, as "children ride on their parents tickets". I doubt that he is "unwilling to process the info of the wt where it pertains to his loved ones". It just doesn`t sound right to me. Of course I could be wrong, but I strongly suggest you ask him about this.

He too relishes in the gloom & doom of the news

Of course he does. I think JWs do that even more now, than before 1995. The "end signs" became so much more important after they changed the meaning of the term "generation".

He says they don't pray for the destruction of the world just for jah's kingdom to come and everything will be made better

Ask him how they expect for Jehovahs kingdom to come without an all-consuming, apocalyptic orgy of mass-murder and bloodfeast to clear the way for that Kingdom. Ask him if he don`t, deep down, look forward for that day to come. And then ask him how he can look forward to a day when you, his wife, is going to be killed!

You mean AFTER you get to pick up the bones of your family and neighbors? AFTER you watch the birds literally eat out eyeballs and such? No comment. ; No comment when you ask about how life will really be in cleaning up the mess. On one hand they say God will provide and on the other they will be responsible for cleaning up Armageddon

They truly believe they will be put in charge of cleaning up the mess! It`s completely sick, not to mention inlogical. If God can kill all the people of the earth (almost 6 billion) in the blink of an eye, why would he put the survivors in charge of cleaning up the mess? And one more thing: They probably think about THIS part of the doctrine with some sick, fearful fascination/gloating etc, you know, "interestingly sick". Sends shivers down their spines. Needless to say, none of these "survivors" has any idea what it`s like to see/touch a dead body. Most people don`t, and JWs in particular don`t. They don`t serve in the army, and they don`t go hunting. Hence, they will very rarely get to see a corpse, whether it be human or animal. I do some hunting. Not often, and mostly duck.hunting, but I have held the head of a dead elk in my hands. The first time you hold something dead in you`re hands (and I`ve even only held dead animals in my hands, never humans, thank God!), it`s not "interesting" or "fascinating" at all, it`s just sad and scary. And slightly disgusting. It`s nothing at all like what they expect it to be like.

10

The Rightness of Shunning Family

by Cygnus in

w81 9/15 p. 30 if a relative is disfellowshiped .

a highly respected christian elder writes: .

"in our area some disfellowshiped ones with large families have been met, as they enter the lobby of the kingdom hall, with a fanfare of backslapping and handshaking (even though the disfellowshiped one was known by them to be still living immorally).

Hellrider

Hm...maybe Steve is right. Maybe "apostates" should embrace the practise of shunning, encourage it. Something like reverse psychology...if they were to get the impression that DFed and shunned don`t mind being shunned, at least their sick little gloating over the shunning would be choked.

28

The Anointed, the Numbers and the GB

by thinker in

have you ever considered the anointed, the number of partakers at the memorial and the governing body together?

if you examine the number of partakers you can clearly see that sometimes the numbers increase.

i asked some jws about this and their reply was, "those are replacements for unfaithful ones".

Hellrider

of who might truly be "anointed", and not count the obvious nuts who partake each year

Ha ha! (me thinks there are quite a few of those..)

28

The Anointed, the Numbers and the GB

by thinker in

have you ever considered the anointed, the number of partakers at the memorial and the governing body together?

if you examine the number of partakers you can clearly see that sometimes the numbers increase.

i asked some jws about this and their reply was, "those are replacements for unfaithful ones".

Hellrider

Theoretically speaking the supposed "sealing" of the 144K in 1935 is INDEPENDENT of current membership as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Thus a person who is part of that number could be say in Russia or China or some of the Moslem countries and only recently introduced to the truth and started associating with Jehovah's Witnesses as JWs

But that doesn`t solve the problem, does it? The point is that the 144K is not a symbolic number, it`s a "real number"! I don`t know how many JWs that have claimed to be "anointed" over the years, but I believe that the "anointed class" was pretty much filled up. So the fact that the JWs are now gaining ground in China, moslem countries etc, doesn`t explain this problem at all, it just adds to the problem! Or?

6

Real christ like personality!

by Gill in

i posted about a neighbour of mine in a more critical light a few months ago.

her young daughter of 15 was pregnant and her son of 17, his girlfriend also 17 was pregnant.

my point at the time was, how could this have happened and why hadn't she been keeping an eye on her children?

Hellrider

The passage the JWs will never understand:

1 Corinthians 13. 13: And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

36

praying for mass destruction and death

by Cognitive_Dissident in

so i was writing a paper the other day, specifically about the skewed world view that i had had as a witness, and i typed the following - .

pain, misery, strife, these were all things that used to prove to me that jehovah's witnesses were correct in their assessment of a dying world which was soon to be liberated/obliterated by the hand of god.

this "liberation" was something that i desperately longed for.

Hellrider

That one you mentioned. I grew up in that stuff, but I never looked forward to that day. I dreaded it, I thought about it all the time, imagining how it would be like, Jesus coming from the sky, riding on his white horse with the sword drawn, and his army of angels, massacring everyone not JW (and me too, if I hadn`t been a good boy). So I believed it, but there was this voice deep inside that said that it couldn`t be real, it just couldn`t be so. I could accept that God could kill all the adults on the earth, but not the children. And we were told that "children ride on their parents tickets", hence the children og non-JWs (that would be...99.99 % of all the children on the earth) would be killed too. And I just refused to accept that. This was probably the one part of the doctrine that made me want to be free. So I never got baptised, and left at 17. When the Bible talks of the unrighteous, that their day will come, etc etc, I just can`t possibly understand how JWs can believe that this would include every single person, men, women and especially children, on the earth. Wasn`t Jesus the one that said "let all the children come to me?". I doubt Jesus would hold a child accountable for the actions of his/her parents. Still, this was what we were taught to believe. And they teach that today too, I assume. Perhaps they don`t say it out loud as often as back then in the 70s and 80s, but that`s what they believe. And Tom: Yes, it was like that for me too. I believed it was the "correct" religion for a long time, or at least a PART of me did. The emotional part. With the logical part of my brain I started dissecting, analysing, ripping the beliefs apart already in my late teens. But there was an "Armageddon-troll" deep inside me thru most of my 20s. And for that, I HATE the organisation of the JWs with all my heart! Their indoctrination and brainwashing can truly ruin peoples lives, or great parts of peoples lives. I wanna "do something". Get back at them somehow. But don`t know how. I am planning on doing some anti-witnessing, though. Maybe that`ll give me some satisfaction.

15

Prohibition or what ?

by KAYTEE in

according to the wt, the wine is passed around, once a year, to all those who have been "chosen".

they believe that this is a requirement, set out in the holy scriptures and is proof that they are of the anointed class.. has anyone any idea what happened during the time of prohibition in the us, when it was against the law of the land to purchase alcohol?

did they use a substitute?.

Hellrider

...or maybe they just smoked pot instead.

And that "wine is only for the annointed"-thing is just something they came up with so they didn`t have to share their wino. After all, why share when you can have it all yourself. Hm...there is much wizdom among the annointed, me thinks..

22

The U.N. and the Destruction of Babylon the Great.

by Flash in

russia and china are calling for the u.n. to be in charge of the war on terror.. leaders say u.n. must direct terror fight:.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/un_world_summit;_ylt=akz8e.tgsmf_oflkwyivqjrmwmcf;_ylu=x3odmta5bgvna3nhbhnlywnzc3jlba--.

its been my opinion that when responcibility for the war on terror gets turned over to the u.n. they will in time conclude (with god's help) that 'religion' is the main problem and has to be eliminated.. what do you think?

Hellrider

Flash wrote:

Liberals HATE religion.

They do? All intellectuals (or I should rather say "all people with brains" - as "intellectuals" is a rather complex group, and not all of them are really that "intellectual") see the problems/dangers with organised religion. But if you were to say out loud, both here in Europe and in America, that Islam is shit, and should be outlawed, and while you`re at it, outlaw all the dangerous christian cults too, the liberals and the politically correct wouldn`t hear past the "Islam is shit"-comment, before they started yelling "racists! biggots!"...and that would pretty much be it. The same thing goes for christianity. On a worldwide basis, have you any idea how small this group of atheists/agnostics is? I bet that on a worldwide basis, less than 10% of the human race, are atheists/agnostics. You can`t outlaw something that the whole world is a part of. That`s only the atheists pipedream.

21

unforgivable sin--sin against the holy spirit

by rebel8 in

.

is there such a thing in jw mythology?

i thought apostacy was considered unforgivable but i can't find any quotes on the topic.

Hellrider

Yeah, my relatives nr 1 scare tactic when I was gettting out of that crap, at age 16-17, was that those that knew the truth, but still walked away from it, would not get to live in paradise. Especially my grandmother (on dads side), a devoted JW, pulled that crap on me all the time. She`d also use the "imagine how your father (who had died a few years earlier) will feel when he is ressurected, and you`re not there". Thank God almighty that I stopped visiting her.

87

What was Jesus implying...........................

by defd in

at john 10:30 jesus said " i and the father are one" what was he implying?

was it a claim to be almighty god?

what is your thoughts and why?

Hellrider

So why is it that MANY use that SINGLE scripture to support a false doctrine?

?? Who? I`ve never heard anyone use that single scripture to support the trinitiy-doctrine. Where did you hear that? Is that something you read in the WT? There are many, many passages that relate to the nature of christ, and his relationship with the Father. By the way, you should read Carlas post again: This is NOT what the trinity-doctrine is about. I`m not sure if the trinity-doctrine is right or wrong (it could very well be wrong), but I still think it`s a fascinating thought! The idea is, that the the Father, the holy ghost and the son are ONE, but at the same time SEPARATE! The trinity-doctrine is a logical impossibility! - but at the same time, the "impossibility" of it, the "inlogical" in it, is somehow an image of christianity as a whole! It IS inlogical that someone should rise from the dead, and by doing that, conquer death, and promise eternal life to all mankind. Within the "impossibility" and "inlogical...ness :o) of the trinity-doctrine, lays its mysticism. I don`t think anyone can really understand the doctrine, though. But the doctrine isn`t like you, or the WT claims, that "Jesus said he was God". Jesus never said he was the Father, he said he was the son. The question is, however, if the son is "in" the Father, and the Father "in" the son, while at the same time NOT! Please read up on this issue.