My old friend Marvin and sir82 are correct in their explanations. I am certain that what is being reinforced to elders is that it is not the SIN that mandates a disfellowshipping but rather a person's stubbornness in advocating it in the congregation if it's against a principle (voting, smoking, alternate ways of doing meetings or arranging field service, etc) or extreme continuance of a gross sin such as fornication (a one-night stand might be excused with a reproof but a 3 year adulterous relationship likely would not).
Posts by Cygnus
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51i called bethel RE: voting...
by in a new york bethel minute in.
still not a conscience matter... although for the countries that demand that everyone register and actually walk in the booth to cast a vote, a witness may, if his conscience allows, register and go into the booth and add a new box labelled "jesus christ", then checkmark that box and vote for him... hahaha cool eh?!!!.
bethel
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Misinformation in CoC
by ICBehindtheCurtain inhello everyone, i know that many here like me have read ray's book crisis of consience, i was very impressed with it, it helped open my eyes to the hypocrisy and double standards of the wts, and ray gave me the impresion of being a very loving and kind man, not the demonized apostate we were all lead to believe.
but, i noticed something that wasn't quite correct when i was reading the part that spoke of then brother rene vazquez, he makes it seem like all rene did was have private conversations with ray and nothing else, this is not true, i for a fact know that this was not all that happened.
in a ms meeting on tuesday back in 1980, rene was conducting a part and he went up to the stage with only his bible, he started saying that all we needed was the bible, that we would no longer be using other publications by the wts .
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Cygnus
I have to disagree with my esteemed colleague Nark here...
if he wanted to enlighten others, he should have done this privately, what was he thinking?
He was thinking along the same lines I was thinking when I gave my last MS talk - I really need to HELP these poor lost souls and GET THEM THE TRUE GOSPEL. I concluded by reading the passage in Galatians, gesturing to the entire crowd, "you are ALL sons of God." Except I got lots of compliments on my talk afterwards, even though it was a partial dismantling of the little flock/other sheep doctrine. I just attended a small congo in suburban Buffalo.
I went through almost a year of that junk before I finally rid myself of worrying about whether people knew anything about Jesus. My hope would be that Rene rid himself of the yoke of christianity too.
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Can anyone tell me about the UN
by PoppyR ini'm so sorry that i'm sure everytime somone new joins you're going over the same thing again, but all this is very new to me, in fact i've done very little this past week except read articles and cross reference the wt cd rom..lol, everyone thinks i'm getting spiritual again, anyway!
i have read several references to the jws and the un.. can anyone shed some light on the matter, ie point me in the direction of good posts or articles about it, as i'm still unclear what has been going on.
i'm most interested in the facts of the case which is what i think this board is best at!.
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Cygnus
Legolas, el oh el, I'd say that's a pretty definitive and comprehensive resource.
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too stupid for words
by peacefulpete inok this is one for the books, my wife's great grandmother who is a miraculous 94 year old cervical and ovarian cancer survivor and a 87 year old man from the hall were just counselled on the need for a chaperon!
it seems someone was disturbed that the two were alone in her appartment!
she is practically housebound and his visits to shoot the breeze and talk about the old times were the highlight of her week.
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Cygnus
Several times I'd go to a sister's house or a married couple's house with only the wife home and had to stand outside, thereby removing any threat of temptation.
"Come come now Georgie boy... we're not little children now, are we?" - Alex in A Clockwork Orange
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I can't read the WT and AWAKE anymore
by Jez inhundreds of supplementary publications written by unnamed authors that can hide behind the watchtower and bible tract society and say anything without referencing it.
lately, i have been thinking that this is one of the reasons that the society does not encourage higher education.
try handing in an essay without your name on it, try not referencing your essay, try having no works cited, try to have only 1 works cited, try quoting out of context, try spewing statistics or numbers or trends in your essay with no reference or date, add ellipsis that only alert your instructor to the potential of hidden information, or try presenting as support for your thesis a third party quote.
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Cygnus
El Oh El at Yaldah. I don't mean any disrespect... just got a kick out of your post for reasons evident to any veteran of this board.
Eddie, of course Rev Frank was speaking of the unbiblical notion of 2 classes of Christians. To be fair, if you look at the Bible as a whole from a political standpoint, I think you do see a class of "kings" and of course they would have their subjects. Some may include pseudo-christians who never really "signed on the dotted line," as well as the mass of humanity covered by Christ's "ransom for all." What a shame that Rutherford's personal vendetta against government and the catholic and offshoot churches perverted Chuck Russell's near-universalism.
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Can anyone tell me about the UN
by PoppyR ini'm so sorry that i'm sure everytime somone new joins you're going over the same thing again, but all this is very new to me, in fact i've done very little this past week except read articles and cross reference the wt cd rom..lol, everyone thinks i'm getting spiritual again, anyway!
i have read several references to the jws and the un.. can anyone shed some light on the matter, ie point me in the direction of good posts or articles about it, as i'm still unclear what has been going on.
i'm most interested in the facts of the case which is what i think this board is best at!.
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Cygnus
Bob King does a pretty good job briefly (albeit from a harsh biblical standpoint) here: http://www.jehovah-has-become-king.com/forward.html
A few years ago when the story first broke, Hyghlandyr and I would give out the UN webpage that listed the WTS as an NGO to the JW yahoo chat room. We or some other "apostate" were accused of hacking the UN website and listing the Watchtower Society, or that the entire website was a forgery by gnashing teethed apostates.
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15
Relationship/money/other troubles...advice...
by aloneinPA ini look like a newbie, but i post under another name.
the reason i created this new name was to keep a certain someone, who reads this board but does not post, from discovering this post.. i posted about this business that my boyfriend is involved in.
i was skeptical about it.
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Cygnus
I think you need to work on trusting your boyfriend. Men make such decisions with much caution and concern that it will be best in the long term. I speak as a part-owner of a business myself. It involves a lot of decision making, planning, and responsibility. I doubt he'd just jump into an unresponsible position if he's demonstrated good faith in the past, as well as supporting you in your time of need. If you want to call your feelings "selfish"... well I'd say you both have a healthy amount of pride, and that's a GOOD thing. I would think that successful relationships usually work because both partners have a lot of pride, don't want to let the other down, and have confidence in his or her self to get the job done, so to speak.
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22
Another JW sports star
by undercover in.
apologies if this has already been posted:.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20051030/sports04/510300400
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Cygnus
Who can remember the name of the well-known 1960s English soccer player who became a witness and resigned from the sport?
*** g71 4/8 p. 23 Christian Togetherness in Brazil ***Among the fifty-seven baptized at the Curitiba assembly was a young man in his twenties, a professional soccer player. Besides playing soccer, he was also a promising engineering student. When he learned God’s truth, he turned down lucrative offers and said, in explaining his final decision: "Time is short, and I want to make the best possible use of it: to serve Jehovah, our Creator." He was baptized at the assembly held at the stadium of the same club for which he played.
Was it this dude who perhaps has spent 34 and a half "short" years serving Jehovah?
Nope, sorry, it is this dude.
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g73 5/22 p. 23 Body Building Was a Prime Interest in My Life ***At once I went to my manager and trainer and explained that being Mr. Universe was no longer my goal in life and that no longer would I perform in any shows that would bring praise to myself. They exploded into a rage of obscenities, not only toward me, but even cursing the Name of Jehovah. However, I held firmly to my resolve. About that time I was much encouraged when a local newspaper published a story about a famous soccer player in England who turned down a million-dollar contract to follow in the footsteps of Christ Jesus as one of Jehovah’s witnesses.
That's mildly amusing to me because the chairman of the judicial committee that voted to DF me had a brother who was a professional body builder and we used to go to his competitions.
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If raised JW - or in while young - how strict were your parents?
by Jamelle ini'm just curious to know where my parents register on the scale of strictness...
growing up, i felt absolutely smothered by my parents (mostly my mother).
the things i couldn't do were above and beyond the limitations put on the other young people in our hall.
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Cygnus
back in the 80's there were always JW's mentioning how that had to walk out of this movie or that movie.
Yeah, that was en vogue in these parts as well. 4 jaydub 18 or 19 year olds walked out of "Parenthood" when Steve Martin's character got a blowjob from his wife while driving (implied - nothing was actually shown, and it set up a funny scene where they ended up in a wreck).
A couple of additional thoughts:
There was a very popular JW family and over the course of knowing them for nearly 20 years I spent a few days at their house as a kid. The exchanges between sons and father were surprisingly upsetting. An example. Father: "Would you mind getting a garbage bag?" Son, with a snarky tone: "Yes, but I'll do it anyway."
I spent the night at one JW kid's parents' house, and he spent all night trying to convince me he was an alien from outer space. Drew me a picture of his spacecraft and wrote his home planet's alphabet
I and my siblings weren't prevented from watching anything on TV. Smurfs, Monty Python, Bizarre, Benny Hill, any sports. The only time my dad was strict about TV was one Memorial night; he wouldn't let me put the hockey game on. The next year and years after he gave in and let me watch my beloved Buffalo Sabres. :)
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barf-inducing quote on jw-media.org...
by in a new york bethel minute inconscience
jehovah's witnesses avoid making rules and regulations beyond those provided in the scriptures, and they do not follow traditions that contradict bible teachings.
emphasis is placed on personal application of bible principles and the value of a sound, bible-based conscience.matthew 15:9; 2 corinthians 1:24.
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Cygnus
Well............. if you don't like the tough parts of being a JW, you can quit. The protocols are all there. Nothing's hidden. And you don't have to DA or get DF'd. My dad has successfully faded. DocBob got out intact. AlanF has to be in the top 10 of all-time apostates of JWism and he's not DF'd.
And after all, Ted Jaracz told the media that JWs "don't go beyond the things written."