Did MSNBC kill this blog? I tried to post yesterday but on every refresh the last post is still one by J.G.M. made around 4:30 PM yesterday. Edited (since my daily allotment of posts is used up) to add: I see the topic has been closed. What the JWs fail to recognize is theirs is not the only religion doing good things for people in need, and they certainly don't hold a monopoly on truth or recognizing and promoting the kingdom of God. Some comments by opposers of JWs could have been worded better, for persons unfamiliar with Watchtower-think, but all in all I don't think a single person would come away from that blog wanting to start a Bible study with JWs. And, my posts did show up, for which I'm grateful.
Posts by Cygnus
-
40Jwitness roofing service blog overun with JW! Go make a comment! Plantseed
by PaNiCAtTaCk inhere is the link.
copy and paste and post.
here is an actual post from a jw.
-
-
-
59
Is the 144,000 persons mentioned in Rev 7:4-8 literal or symbolic
by trem ini know that this may have been treated before but i still need your valuable suggestions.. rev 7:4 says "and i heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of israel", veses 5 to 8 provides additional details that 12,000 were selected from the 12 tribes of israel.
the book of numbers 1: 20-42 lists the following as the 12 tribes of natural israel: reu ben, sim eon, gad, judah, is sachar, zeb ulun, e phraim, manas seh, benjamin, dan, ash er and naph tali.
however, rev 7:5-8 did not list the tribes of ephraim and dan but instead listed 10 approved tribes with 2 non approved tribes of levi and joseph.
-
-
Cygnus
One explanation I've heard of guesses that the "hear and then see" motif of Revelation applies to chapter 7. The angel speaks and John "hears" the number of those sealed, then he "sees" the great crowd standing in front of the throne. They are one in the same.
The two tribes are replaced because they ended up proving unfaithful.
Can't remember any more than that. Don't really want to either.
-
14
An Old JW friend has just pissed his life away...
by Sam the Man inwell, a few of you are aware of my situation.
for those that are not, basically i more or less admitted to my wife that i no longer believe (after being raised a dub, bethel 'service' etc) and that led to altercations with her and the elders.
i had a friend in the congreation who, after also being raised a jw, had done none of the things i had, even not been baptised (thats right, not in 30+ years!!!
-
-
Cygnus
You never know. He may be making a decision on a whim, and then later he will regret being baptised and make just as radical a decision to formally cut ties with the religion. Maybe he doesn't quite know it yet, but he's setting himself up to be DF'd and free from Watchtowerism altogether. Crazier things have happened. (edited spelling error)
-
41
I was reading a post today about the kingdom songs we sang as JW's.
by booker-t ini was thinking about the kingdom songs we sang as jw's and was wondering about you posters out there that are ex-jw's or still jw's what was you all time favorite "kingdom song" or what was you all time horrible song that we sang from both songbooks (1966 songbook or the later songbook made in 1984 sing praises to jehovah.
my favorite song was song #119 in the 1966 songbook "keep your eyes on the prize".
i like this song because it made me feel that armaggeddon was coming fast and the "new system" would be here to give me the prize.
-
-
Cygnus
Loyal Love, Make the Truth Your Own, and Keep Your Eyes On the Prize were district convention greats. Especially with the live orchestra (long since gone).
I always liked "As wih Gideon's 300 men, our Commander soon will tell us when..." - Stay Awake, Stand Firm and Grow Mighty.
One convention us dubs overran a hotel and in the lobby they had a piano. A JW girl decided to play We're Jehovah's Witnesses and about 10 dub teenagers started singing it really loudly. Looked like fools, I thought. The hotel manager came over and said, "We know who you are, can you please keep it down?"
http://members.aol.com/cygnus97/sounds/23.wav That link is me doing song #23 jazzed up a bit and recorded in my upstairs "studio". Some day I will redo the drums and add keyboards, when my hands come back.
-
51
i called bethel RE: voting...
by in a new york bethel minute in.
still not a conscience matter... although for the countries that demand that everyone register and actually walk in the booth to cast a vote, a witness may, if his conscience allows, register and go into the booth and add a new box labelled "jesus christ", then checkmark that box and vote for him... hahaha cool eh?!!!.
bethel
-
-
Cygnus
jula, that article is Watchtowerly Weasel Worded. It draws a few major red herrings and doesn't address the actuality of the outcome if a Witness registers, votes, and then talks about voting. Sure, a Witness can vote. A Witness can do anything. They just can't get caught doing it, or if they're caught, they need to hush up about it. That's the 'protection of his freedom of speech' that the article is referring to. A JW must make sure he can be able to properly criticize government and tell people Jehovah's Kingdom is the ONLY solution without compromisation by publicly supporting some human political endeavor.
-
20
Help me respond to this lady im tired of messing with her. U write I send
by PaNiCAtTaCk ini have mostly addressed 1914 problems but she has ignored everything i sent.
i have to go to work help me send her something.
our conversation ignited from a post on the jw roofing blog.
-
-
Cygnus
tetra's was a bit harsh so let me have a crack at it with a little more tact, hehe
: You still didn't answer my question of who do we go away to? You say your decision to leave Jehovah's witnesses left you on your own. How can you obey the admonition not to forsake the gathering together with fellowbelievers?
There are lots of things to do in this life that are fulfilling, spiritual, and meaningful that have nothing to do with Jehovah, the Bible, or the Watchtower. (List things you have interest in and are as described.)Now I have a question for you: If you look at the New World Translation, verses 19 through 25 of Hebrews ch. 10 constitute one paragraph. One entire contextual thought. Do you have " boldness for the way of entry into the holy place" as the scriptural admonition indicates? If you say that applies to the anointed, then I answer it applies to the anointed JEWISH Christians to whom the letter was written 1900 +/- years ago. I am not Jewish, I am not of the anointed, and I don't live 1900 years ago. And I don't think the author of the letter was telling the Jews to go to the Kingdom Hall.
: What do you say to the people who doubted the WT literature that said certain kings lived in Bible times but the research books all said they could not have lived because of the existing worldly evidence? Now, 50 years later the worldly scholars have found the efidence that the WT literature didn't need because they simply believed the Bible.
Who? David? There might have been a David. Belshazzar? I agree there was one. But the beauty of scholarship is that it promotes accuracy and truth. That evidence is found that corroborates sections of the Bible doesn't justify all of its stories. Did a man really spend 3 days inside a great white shark? Did a man really lose his Superman-like strength because of a haircut? Did a man really come back from the dead and to prove it had people stick their hands into his hole-riddled corpse?
: God needs a large organization to handle the mammoth warning work that is prophesied to be done earthwide. The Mormons have a giant organization but they are doing no warning work.
Sure the Mormons do. They believe in an imminent Second Coming and they share their faith with others. Evangelical protestantism has been around for a long time and exerts much more of an influence and attracts more people than JWs do. Haven't you ever heard of a thing called The Rapture that many millions of Americans believe could happen at any time, ushering in a 7-year Great Tribulation? Havn't you ever been to a Borders or any large bookstore and visited the Religion section and find dozens of books about the Second Coming?There is also a Christian belief system called Preterism, which adheres to Colossians 1:23, that the good news had been preached to all creation and the return, or parousia, of Jesus did occur in the first century, as expected by nearly every New Testament writer. Maybe that has some credence, don't you think? The Watchtower already does apply nearly all of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 to 66-70 CE.
Really, how is it that JWs know for certain what warning work they are preaching, as it has changed dramatically over the years - but the Bible hasn't, has it? Charles Russell taught that Matthew 24:1-14 applied to the entire Christian age. Then that was "adjusted" to have begun in 1914. The original title of the magazine was "Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence" because it was taught that Christ was present since 1874. That teaching has been discarded. Russell also taught that the ransom would benefit and cover ALL persons, including Adam and Eve. We don't teach that about the ransom any longer. We once taught that the great tribulation began in 1914; now we don't. We once taught that we were doing a separating work, determining sheep from goats. Now that is considered a future event. Same with the celestial activity. It was taught that persons alive and old enough to be aware that the Kingdom was established in 1914 and that the League of Nations was a counterfeit backed by the "man of lawlessness," the clergy, would see Armageddon. Then it was "adjusted" so that such people would merely have to have been born. Then finally "adjusted" so that the definition of "generation" completely changed. I can document all of these changes for you. What else might change, as we are almost in the year 2006 with 2014 approaching? Have you considered that the established Kingdom with Jesus as King has been stagnant for almost a whole century now, and that perhaps not just the chronology but the entire belief is seriously flawed?
The Watchtower teaches that the resurrection of the "sleeping saints," or the anointed who had already died, began in the spring of 1918. That is based on the belief that the time sequence of Jesus' ministry of 3 1/2 years paralleled autumn of 1914 to the spring of 1918. But in 1918 the Watchtower was teaching that this resurrection began in 1878. Wouldn't that make them guilty of teaching that the resurrection had occurred when it hadn't? Isn't that what 2 Timothy 2:17-18 calls a 'deviation from the truth'? Here, I'll quote it: Hy·me·nae´us and Phi·le´tus are of that number. These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some. That's exactly what the organization was doing, if we are correct about the adjusted dating. But what if the dating is still wrong? In view of 2 Timothy it sounds very serious. Can you teach someone, using just the Bible, that the resurrection occurred in the spring of 1918? Do you see why I have serious reservations about some things now?
: Comparing the Book of Mormon to the Watchtower is like comparing the dust bag from your vacuum cleaner to a banquet of fresh food. I have read it and discussed it with my Mormon cousins who spend every Saturday night getting baptized for dead people.
Your denigration of their faith really is uncalled for. The Bible does speak of baptism of the dead; their interpretation and application may or may not be correct, but as I discussed above, ours hasn't been on target as regards the end of the system of things, or the resurrection. Where in the Bible does it say the resurrection began in 1918, or that the heavenly calling ended in 1935? Do you realize there are men on the Governing Body that were born after 1935? I agree that the Book of Mormon is not of God so I don't advocate it to my neighbors. Do you see why I also have serious reservations that some Watchtower teachings are not of God either?
: There is no place to go. And there is plenty to critisize. But as for me and my household, we will serve Jehovah with the only people on earth who recognize his soverignty.I believe that is a very arrogant statement, and I'm sorry you are so close-minded that you fail to recognize the hundreds of millions who also put faith in Jehovah and his Son Jesus as the ultimate judges and rulers. Many simply do so quietly. What is wrong with that? The Bible says to be humble, does it not? It says that SOME are to be teachers, and others other things, but there is one hope, doesn't it? Why do JWs insist that all be teachers and that there are two Christian hopes?
Then I would conclude with whatever personal assurances and whatnot you'd say, depending on your relationship to this person.
-
7
Do you know of any "born-again christians" that became JW's?
by booker-t ini was just wondering how many born-agains become jw's especially the ones that know all about the wt history of false prophecies, scandals, etc; and what do they say now if they might have told you about the errors of the wt.
do they suddenly get amnesia?
i remember when i was in high school in the 1980's there was a girl that used to try and convert me to born-againism.
-
-
Cygnus
I remember being a small child and constantly hearing about "bornagains" and how they would argue with Witnesses at the door, and how challenging it was to come across one, and how stubborn they were. It fascinated me. After my deconversion from Watchowerism I briefly flirted with the idea that I was "born again in the gospel" but that didn't last long. I have chatted with many BACs over the last 7 or 8 years and I can't imagine one that would substitute Judge Rutherford's Jesus for Billy Graham's Jesus.
-
10
What the doctor said about the JWs and blood
by MegaDude ini work as a court reporter and wrote a doctor's deposition this evening at a very large hospital in dallas, texas, who is working on a clinical trial involving a drug that jehovah's witnesses use to help stop bleeding.
he mentioned the jws twice as he is involved in three different clinical trials using this drug which is a strong coagulant.
during a recess i asked him if he worked with a lot of jws and he said, "oh, yes.
-
-
Cygnus
I wonder how much guilt exists afterwards, or if they justify it somehow and ask God for forgiveness (I can't leave my children without a mother), or if they even care.
Patients who undergo surgery here have to sign paperwork allowing doctors to use blood products if needed. When the staff woke me up after my open heart procedure, I had three IVs going, one in each arm and one in my neck that was feeding me plasma. But they have to ask beforehand.
-
17
607, Jerusalem completely subjected or destroyed? Which is it? New light?
by JoeGeneration inaccording to the authorized site of the office of public information of jehovah's witnesses www.jw-media.org, beginning in 607 b.c.e., jerusalem was completely subjected to the rule of gentile world powers.
does this indicate that wts is getting away from insisting that jerusalem .
was destroyed in 607, as we know it was not, but rather that it came under the thumb of babylon and marked an end to true rule of a king in the line of david?
-
-
Cygnus
Hi Steve,
He wrote that the knowledge of the time features was the sickle that separated the wheat from the tares.
Do you have a quote on that?
He condemned most, if not all, churches as Babylon, that God has cast off, and would destroy in Armageddon.
He certainly wasn't alone in doing that, though. And his doctrine of the ransom covered over even the sins of the wicked clergy.
After 1914, he was again positive that the Gentile Times had indeed ended then. He made further speculations about the future, and then he died, and left his followers confused about how to interpret his expectations.
Hmm. My thoughts were that Russell saw the war in Europe as the development of his ideas of anarchy, the biblical time of trouble, and culminating in Armageddon. I am not familiar with any "further speculations" from him specifically; I believe he took a wait and see attitude when there was no rapture in early October, 1914. The 7th Volume certainly didn't contain any confusion - THAT book, not written by Russell, was particularly dogmatic about who, what and when.
I don't know what to make of his statement. The attitude expressed seems to be a healthy one. Perhaps he was expressing the wisdom of experience as he got older, and became more liberal in his attitude, and was seeking to caution the brethren. Sometimes I think Russell stated contradictory attitudes, and was not consistent. He was a complex man. His prophetical views seem sectarian and narrow, and yet his attitude is often loving and liberal and broad.
I agree 100%. -
50
What's the most controversial thing you ever did in Kingdom Hall?
by JH ini remember scanning real money and with photoshop pasting the picture of an elder on the bill over the face of the queen.
then i printed many bills.
it looked very real.
-
-
Cygnus
You all are perverted philistines.
There were shenanigans that went on at the kingdom hall by certain young pioneer brothers and sisters who had keys to the building and would use it as a meeting place for socializing and determining what bar to hit next. Of course I wasn't popular enough to be included.
I guess the MOST controversial thing I did was at the last meeting I attended as a baptized JW. An elder held up the "Require" brochure and said, "Isn't it wonderful that the FDS has given us this instrument to use in our ministry, because people today don't want to think for themselves and in 32 pages this brochure can do all their thinking for them!" I let out a very loud AHEM and got up and walked into the bathroom. There I decided I'd never attend another meeting again. It was May 1997.
Of course I did end up attending some more meetings. On the weekends a couple of years ago I would drive to Pittsburgh and spend time with caty. Her mother insisted she go to the kingdom hall occasionally so I went with (she said "you must REALLY love me if you'll go to a kingdom hall with me). I showed up for quite a few Sunday meetings, dressed in sneakers and jeans. Caty and I would play hangman most of the time. One elder took a liking to me. He wore some sort of tie-clip made out of ivory which he obtained while overseas serving the country in WWII. He asked me, "Do you know where this ivory came from?" I replied, "Idaho?" Everybody around us LMAO'd and the elder just rambled on about the dumb clip.
I'm stopping right now because my dad reads this board... :-|