has anyone seen the education public talk?
i have the outline over here, but its a talk that i'm sure will now have to undergo some serious modification.
the talk itself (imho) was far more balanced than the current line from the watchtower.. has that happened before, that a talk has to be pulled or reworked?.
FWIW, yes Public Talk Outlines are "updated" from time to time.
Also, they issue "adjustments" to the wording of specific sentences (sometimes to correct an obvious typo in the outline, but sometimes to delete or change a particular point).
So, yep, if a tougher line on higher education is being taken up (again), they could adjust or just stop delivering Public Talk(s) that didn't jive with the new tack.
---Dan
i know this is kind of a joke but i was wondering what would happen if russell, rutherford, knorr, franz and milton henschel all met up for a meeting to discuss the watchtower bible and tract society/jw's and how to run it today?
russell would probably say " i am the faithful and discreet slave" rutherford would say to russell "no you are not that is "old light" i am the faithful and discreet slave class along with my associates" and then nathan knorr would tell them both that they are both wrong the governing body is the faithful and discreet slave class.
and also knorr would tell charles t russell he would be disfellowshipped for wearing his beard.
First,they would meet in secret somewhere, away from the prying eyes of Ted Jaracz.
Then they would set up judicial committees on each other for various "sins" (Russell for celebrating Christmas, Rutherford for drinking, Knorr for not treating the flock with kindness, Freddy for authoring books from delusional thinking, use your imagination.......)
LOL.
---Dan
in hardly 10 years, my psychical life had been destroyed, and then my soulical life had been demolished.
i was a tatters of a man.. i went to a psychiatrist...what a hopeless effort: at $150 an hour, i would've had to spend the next 10 years, and several hundreds of thousands of dollars, to "explain" to this man what i'd experienced.
even then, he wouldn't have been able to understand.
Thank you for sharing your story, Craig. Can't wait for the next installment. ---Dan
some time back, i had a disagreement with my brother-in-law, who even though he has doubts about the witnesses, still wants to put on the cloak of being a believer for his mother's sake.
while he acknowledges the doctrinal errors and abysmal treatment of the flock by their elders, he doesn't want to assign a malicious, controlling motivation to it.
i told him that i believed the idea of not having windows in kingdom halls was part of the brain washing that occurs during meeting after meeting during the weeks, months and years.
Pretty much all window-less in the parts of Northen California I've travelled through.
Why windowless? The reasoning is always to reduce vandalism issues....but then, that also plays into the "victim" mentality of Witnesses.
---Dan
as mr. spock would often say: "interesting, very interesting.".
posting the first several parts of my life story evoked an emotional response in me that i didn't fully anticipate; thus the angst.
as i've pondered what happened next, (and maybe this is one of the very best things i can derive from sharing my experiences!
btt
which of ray's books would you recommend someone read first.
coc does a great job of explaining ray's situation and the results.
while covering some major doctrines along the way.
CoC first.
---Dan
http://www.drewmarshall.ca/listen.html [ open link to select player best suited for your computer ].
having grown up in a jehovah's witness family, { quotes } came to the realization that what he was being raised to believe, wasn't standing up to scrutiny.
subsequently, he put together a fantastic website, simply showing primary resource material (stuff jw's say about themselves and their beliefs) then simply highlighted various points of interest... things to make you say "hmmm!
Quotes,
BRAVO!!!! Well Done. Let me add to the chorus of back-slapping here.....your demeanor was just right, calm, thoughtful, well-spoken. You chose your words carefully...nice job.
I listened to both segments, and just want to say "Keep Up the Good Work"
Best wishes,
---Dan
i was an active witness, and i didn't feel as if god granted anything i asked for in prayers.
i didn't ask anything out of the ordinary.
since the witnesses say that they are god's followers and that he blesses them, i wonder in what way he blesses individuals when they pray?.
Jeffro wrote: If you pray about something, and it doesn't happen, it's because "God may not answer our prayers in the way we expect", or because we "lack faith" or because it's "not in harmony with God's will" or because "God is helping us learn endurance and long-suffering". If you pray about something, and it does happen, it's because you "asked in faith", "God is blessing you", and it was "in accord with God's will". If you don't pray about something but it happens anyway, it's because "God knows our needs before we even ask him." If you don't pray about something and it doesn't happen, it's because "you lack faith" and you haven't "relied on God." And if all else fails, you can play the "time and unforeseen occurrence" wildcard. It is superstitious smoke and mirrors.
My thoughts exactly. I don't intend to offend those who feel their prayers are answered, my experience is different. About the time I left, the fog was beginning to lift on this area of Witness teaching, and I was drawing the same conclusion as Jeffro. I can recall many times feeling especially "blessed", when something desired happened or came through for me, along the lines of what other have posted above. And naturally, I ascribed it to my god-oriented life and prayer. But since I've left, and don't pray any longer, the same good things randomly occur in my life, and I have regularly dodged "bullets" so to speak, just like before. And also, BAD things have continued to strike me from time to time, again, just like before. I still feel like I haven't figured out everything yet (re: God), but the Witness teaching on prayer is way off the mark, IMHO. ----Dan
jehovahs witnesses and education a brief history .
it is only the ignorant who despise education.
publilius syrus, moral sayings, first century b.c.e.
Nice going, Nicodemus. Well thought-out and expressed.
I, too wanted to get more than a high school education but my parents forbid it, citing the then-current Witness reasoning. I "lucked out" in entering a line of work where I could grow on my own, but I think I'm the exception in my age group. I see many of my former associates who are growing older, without adequate retirement planning (me, too), and with jobs far less than they could have had with better education.
---Dan
today we went on a hike to summit lake just outside mt.
rainier national park.
i wanted to share some of the pictures, its so gorgeous up there!.
Beautiful pics Sherry.
