digderidoo

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Posts by digderidoo

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  29

  607bce or 586/587 bce ? which is it?

  by Number1Anarchist in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ok this is very difficult for me because i just started studing this question.

  what i would like to know is what have you decided from your studies and does anyone know the statistics on how many beleive in the 607 dat and how many beleive in the 586/587 date.. the watchtower likes to say they agree with the 607 because that number is based on the bible when the 586/587 is based on secular history.. from what ive read so far the mojority thinks it to be 586/587 because most searches ive done give me that date.. what have you come up with in your research?

  i feel like you almost need to be a scholar to figure this out.

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  digderidoo

  I can hear 'Scholar' walking down the corridors of JWD. He ain’t guna be happy…

  .....and i can hear JCanon walking from the opposite direction

  Paul
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  29

  607bce or 586/587 bce ? which is it?

  by Number1Anarchist in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ok this is very difficult for me because i just started studing this question.

  what i would like to know is what have you decided from your studies and does anyone know the statistics on how many beleive in the 607 dat and how many beleive in the 586/587 date.. the watchtower likes to say they agree with the 607 because that number is based on the bible when the 586/587 is based on secular history.. from what ive read so far the mojority thinks it to be 586/587 because most searches ive done give me that date.. what have you come up with in your research?

  i feel like you almost need to be a scholar to figure this out.

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  digderidoo

  Hi number1anarchist

  First of all i'd like to say welcome, i don't think i have come across you before.

  For me this is one thing that made me question every other doctrine the JW's came up with. I like you just accepted the 607 date without question.

  It will take you time to research it properly. There is much info out there.

  Basically JW's get 607BCE by counting backwards the 70 year Jewish captivity from 537BCE when they say Cyrus announced his decree. This is the only way they get to 607BCE.

  So what you have to ask yourself first if you were to accept the 607 date, is whether the 537 date for Cyrus releasing the Jews is correct?

  Jw's and scolars agree that Babylon was conquered in 539BCE, one of the sources for this is Ptolemy's Canon. However they then go on to estimate that it took 18 months or so for Cyrus to release the Jews bringing us to 537BCE date.

  So therefore if the 537 date is based on an estimation, how sure can a JW be that 607 is the correct date? It could have been 538BCE or 536BCE.

  There is much info out there as to how secular historians arrive at 587/6 BCE for the destruction of Jerusalem. There is also much out there how this can harmonise with the 70 year biblical prophecy too. One of them being that the rebuilding of Jerusalems temple was completed in 516BCE, another also being that the Babylonian Empire took hold with the defeat of the Assyrians in 609BCE and the end of the empire being 539BCE, therefore a 70 year rule. This however is something that you need to research as there is far too much information to digest in one thread.

  It is a rewarding thing to do to look into this. But first of all it would be good to look at how JW's arrive at 607BCE, so to do that you need to look at the pivotal date of 537BCE. Ask any JW how they arrive at 537, you will find it is based on if's and but's.

  Feel free to PM if you would like links on any info. There are many people here who have researched this thoroughly, it was well worth the effort in my case.

  Paul
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  24

  For those with a personal relationship to God....How did you get there?

  by digderidoo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as some of you are aware i have been going to aa meetings since the new year.

  the "god thing" linked to the aa was a real dilemma for me.. since this time i have researched well the jw doctrines and come to the realisation that to have a personal relationship with a higher power i do not need to believe in the witness doctrine.. i am at a point where i have been considering how i personally would interprate a higher power.. i have met someone within the aa who is an ex jw and have just had a conversation with him on the phone, which has got me thinking about this.. now he has said that his faith now has been built by replacing one brick at a time so to speak.

  giving an illustration of his faith being like a building, he can replace an old brick with a new one until he gets a new building all of his own making.

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  digderidoo

  As some of you are aware i have been going to AA meetings since the new year. The "God thing" linked to the AA was a real dilemma for me.

  Since this time i have researched well the JW doctrines and come to the realisation that to have a personal relationship with a Higher Power i do not need to believe in the Witness doctrine.

  I am at a point where i have been considering how i personally would interprate a higher power.

  I have met someone within the AA who is an ex jw and have just had a conversation with him on the phone, which has got me thinking about this.

  Now he has said that his faith now has been built by replacing one brick at a time so to speak. Giving an illustration of his faith being like a building, he can replace an old brick with a new one until he gets a new building all of his own making. I thought to myself that this is a good way of looking at it. For me however, because i have been looking at doctrine over the last six months or so, i guess i have already abolished and destroyed that witness building and am now at a point of where do i go from here? Hope i am making sense.

  There seem to be many here who have a new faith. What i was wondering is how did this happen? Was it gradual or sudden? Was there a confusion between witness doctrine and your new faith? Do the two get in the way of each other? Or do the two compliment each other? Basically, how did you get there?

  Paul
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  18

  I realize I am taking up space and your time but I appreciate it

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i understand i jump around too much in my comments.

  my add gets worse when i get nervous.

  plus i know there are topics that could be more academic.

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  digderidoo

  I will say to you that when your whole life and family and friends and beliefs and everything has to do with being a Witness, its almost like speaking against God himself. I still pray before every meal, when I wake up, before I sleep, and throughout the day.

  In time if you are anything like me, you will come to realise that you can still pray throughout the day and God will listen to you. Witnesses do not have the monopoly on God that they claim. From your previous posts i get the sense that you have had some doubts with regards to the Watchtower society.

  The problem for most of us when we first started having doubts was that we felt we were turning our back on God, when in reality we were turning our back on the Watchtower society and it's doctrines.

  Paul
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  42

  what is the best jwd thing to happen to you?...from another jwder

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how good can it get here folks?...........many here care for each other....we need each other...but how much?.......how far??.....oompa.

  btw...thanks all...many have made me laugh...and made me cry...and made me sober...(and some made me hor.ey).

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  digderidoo

  The best thing i have found from jwders is others who are recovering alcoholics like me. It's good to meet people who are going through or who have gone through similar life experiences to myself.

  Paul
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  34

  cheating on you Feild service time

  by Iwonder17 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm curious how many people do this and what is the most that you ever wrote down that you didn't do?.

  my highest was 12 when i only went out 1 hour .

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  digderidoo

  I started off by "borrowing" hours from the following month. In feeling the pressure from pioneering, it culminated in reporting over 70 hours one month when i only did 20 something

  I'm sure i will die at Armaggedon for it

  Paul
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  43

  im an atheist and i like the idea of being an athiest but its kinda hard

  by Lotus65 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im an atheist and i like the idea that comes with freedom of though and analytical thinking that follows being atheistic vs having a religion im just kinda in a jam because i need to try and find something to completely lose the thoughts in the back of my head that say what if im wrong and i "suffer" because of it.

  i feel that if i can find something to destroy these thoughts i can be alot more comfortable with my views and opinions.

  anyone have any thoughts on what i should do.

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  digderidoo

  i like the idea that comes with freedom of though and analytical thinking that follows being atheistic vs having a religion

  It isn't a question of atheism vs religion. Why does God have to come with religion? Being brought up a JW instills this thinking in us.

  For me, i have tried to go the Atheist route but i can't. So what i had to do was to seperate God from religion, especially the JW religion, which involved hard work and plenty of research. Now i believe in a god, problem is i don't know which one, or who he is, i just call him the spirit of the universe, which works for me.

  Paul
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  7

  The Governing Body is stealing Ray Franz's ideas

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on page 267 of "crisis of conscience" ray franz made the observation that the '95 new light on "generation" came shortly after he described what the governing body needed to make the doctrine continue to work.

  my copy of his book came out before this year's "new light" on "the generation".

  however, on page 265 of ray's book another possible "out" for the society is given.

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  digderidoo

  The "new light" on the term generation is not actually new at all. The generation was classed as the annointed many years ago, way before the literal generation idea came to the fore.

  Within Ray Franz's book you will see that one member of the governing body, can't remember which one, was actually teaching this in some part of Scandanavia. It's not that the GB stole the idea from Ray Franz, but it's seems as though this interpretation has been branded about within the governing body for years.

  Paul
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  43

  What would you do?

  by Tool Man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok heres the thing.

  my english neighbor (arrived here from essex, is there really such a place?

  ) always makes those comments about our kids, our car, and so on even made fun out of me when i told him we used to be witnesses.

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  digderidoo

  I'd say it was the British sense of humour. When i am amongst "the lads", it's all about mickey taking. We do not see anything wrong in calling a woman beautiful, in front of their husbands either. In fact it's a common Southern expression to call a woman "beautiful", you may hear him say "alright beautiful?". If he says these things with a smile on his face, you can guarantee it's said in jest.

  Especially if he's from Essex, he's more than likely to be like this.

  If it's a problem have a word with him, ask him straight out.

  Paul
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  29

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Cult?

  by digderidoo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have found these 14 characteristics of a typical cult and below are some questions regarding the behaviour of a cult.

  my personal opinion is that the watchtower society fits into most of these characteristics, with the exception of 1& 14. possibly part of number 10 fits, but not all.

  i feel that all of the questions posed should be asked of jw's and all of the further symptoms apply too.

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  digderidoo

  I have found these 14 characteristics of a typical cult and below are some questions regarding the behaviour of a cult.
  
  My personal opinion is that the Watchtower Society fits into most of these characteristics, with the exception of 1& 14. Possibly part of number 10 fits, but not all. I feel that all of the questions posed should be asked of JW's and all of the further symptoms apply too.
  
  But i wondered what others think? In particular the newbies who i'm sure come across many calling the society a cult. I have come across many writings like this over the years, it's incredible to me how the operation of the Society seems to befit a cult.
  
  Marcia Rudin's 14 Common Characteristics of a Cult
  
  1. Members swear total allegiance to an all-powerful leader who they believe to be the Messiah.
  
  2. Rational thought is discouraged or forbidden.
  
  3. The cult's recruitment techniques are often deceptive.
  
  4. The cult weakens the follower psychologically by making him or her depend upon the group to solve his or her problems.
  
  5. The cults manipulate guilt to their advantage.
  
  6. The cult leader makes all the career and life decision of the members.
  
  7. Cults exist only for their own material survival and make false promises to work to improve society.
  
  8. Cult members often work fulltime for the group for little or no pay.
  
  9. Cult members are isolated from the outside world and any reality testing it could provide.
  
  10. Cults are anti-woman, anti-child, and anti-family.
  
  11. Cults are apocalyptic and believe themselves to be the remnant who will survive the soon-approaching end of the world.
  
  12. Many cults follow an "ends justify the means" philosophy.
  
  13. Cults, particularly in regard to their finances, are shrouded in secrecy.
  
  14. There is frequently an aura of or potential for violence around cults.
  
  
  Commentary by Nori J. Muster
  
  If you think you might be involved in a cult, ask yourself some serious questions about the group.
  
  Do you have to change who you are to fit in, please others?
  Do they set up a duality of "us" and "them" and tell you that people outside the group are bad, less important?
  Do they treat "outsiders" badly or talk behind their backs?
  Do they treat members badly?
  Do they give a false impression to the public?
  Do they predict that society is on the brink of destruction?
  
  Further symptoms:
  
  Cult leaders are often psychopathic and power hungry. They teach their followers that the outside world is evil; that the cult offers the only salvation. This creates an atmosphere of isolation, leading to hopelessness.
  
  Cult recruiters target people with low self-esteem, presenting the group as a loving surrogate family. Members are taught to do whatever the family asks. They must repress their individuality and work for the good of the group.
  
  New people may receive red carpet treatment, but once they are established members, they may be exploited and abused. They may alter their personalities to please authority figures and fit into the group.
  
  Cult leaders preach that society is on the brink of destruction, reinforced by isolating their members and controlling the flow of information within the cult. They manipulate members with guilt and fear.
  
  Cults try to portray themselves as benign and may hide undesirable aspects of their operation from the public and from members. Thus the stereotype of "blind" followers.