Posts by Pahpa

16

Jehovah's Christian Witnesses??

by Grammy in

jw
friends

is it true that jw's now refer to themselves as jehovah's christian witnesses?

Pahpa

One has to wonder if "Jehovah's Christian Witnesses" was not a temporary reaction to the critics who correctly observed that Jesus plays a secondary role in the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. I actually knew of one JW who said to a person "Oh, we don't emphasize Jesus in our religion." I'm sure that she didn't realize what a true statement that really was.

25

The Watchtower justification for now allowing CIVILIAN SERVICE.

by jwfacts in

after tens of thousands of young witness men in the prime of their lives have spent years in jails for refusing civilian service in 1996 the watchtower decided such a choice was not unchristian and a matter of choice.

watchtower 1996 may 1 p.20.

what, though, if the state requires a christian for a period of time to perform civilian service that is a part of national service under a civilian administration?

Pahpa

The young men of my generation faced the issue during the Korean conflict and thereafter. The draft was still existing. It was clearly understood by all in the congregations that any alternative service such as hospital work was clearly "a compromise." Some who chose this course were treated as marked individuals who would not have certain privileges within the congregation and were treated as compromised brothers.

It is just one more example of the vacillating position of the Watchtower on some issues and the cavalier attitude of the leaders in the organization.

46

Long Time Current Bethelite's Take On the Young, New Gov. Body Members

by Seeker4 in

i was talking to a friend yesterday whose sister and brother-in-law have been at bethel for three decades at least, working in important departments that put them in contact with the writing dept., gov.

body, etc.

on a daily basis.. this friend of mine has been a witness for half a century, and has been fading for the past 3-4 years.

Pahpa

Seeker

It doesn't surprise me that the younger GB members are even more "zealous" and exacting in upholding the Watchtower's policies. Undoubtedly, they were selected to serve on that basis. And each tries to outdo the other in "proving" their loyalty to "Jehovah's Organization." We see a similar pattern among the elders in the congregations. It takes courage and fortitude to go against the "tide" of organizational mindset. These qualities are sadly lacking especially among the leadership.

5

Russell's prophetic framework

by Doug Mason in

i do not believe ctr expected the end of the gentile times would usher in an era of war and strife.

his prophetic framework (see below) focused on events leading up to october 1914 (although he was quite prepared to move the end to october 1915).

his framework started with the end of the millennium, christs presence, closing of the high calling, time of trouble, probable translation to heaven in 1910, with the end of the gentile times ushering in universal peace under the jews.

Pahpa

Doug,

A very interesting list. It illustrates just how far off his predictions were. ( It should be noted that Rutherford continued the errors but revised the dates.) It's curious how in spite of the obvious errors of Russell many of the old Bible Student groups still look to him as the "Laodicean messenger" and the "faithful and discreet servant."

7

Jesus gave the Sign

by Doug Mason in

when jesus answered his disciples question about the sign of the temples destruction, they coupled it with the end of the age (aeon) because the end of the temple would clearly indicate that the jewish age had come to its end.

likewise, the disciples believed that this momentous event the destruction of the temple would herald the appearance of messiah in power.

they did not recognize that, instead of coming as a mighty conquering warrior, the messiah had arrived as a babe.

Pahpa

The Watchtower has changed its teaching about "the end" over the years. It now divides the beginning of the "end" when Christ begins to rule (1914) and the "end" when he comes in judgment in the future. However, it is clear to any reader of the Bible that his "parousia" comes when he appears in the heavens with his angels. (Matthew 24:30) The warning is clear that those teaching a secret presence would be "false Christs and false prophets." (Vss. 23-27) The other events previously described were to occur down through history: "Such things must happen, but THE END IS STILL TO COME." (Vs. 6)

The Bible Students of Russell's time were largely influenced by the Second Adventists. They had preconceived ideas of how the scriptures should be fulfilled. They would then pick and choose those scriptures that seemed to conform to these ideas. The Watchtower has continued this trend to this day often going to ridiculous lengths in its interpretation of prophecy as related to its own organizational history.

10

When does the calling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease?

by whereami in

well here it is folks!!!

the wts new "light" on the subject.

read it & weep.

Pahpa

Isaac,

We had a similar situation in our old congregation too. There was an elderly "annointed" brother who just wouldn't conform to the rules of the organization. He passed out the literature without cost. He never attended assemblies on the basis that it was "only for the young ones." And he treated the overseers as children. He was forever being counselled by those in charge. But he dismissed them as a teacher would students. However, he was always counted as a partaker at the Memorial.

I don't know if he would be tolerated now. The elders would probably get him on some trumped up charge like causing dissension among the brothers or undermining Jehovah's organization.

22

Is The Watchtower SocietyA Prison Sentence?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

is the watchtower societya prison sentence?more often then not individuals who are members of this discussion .

board will talk about freedom from the watchtower society.

some members even have their handles containing the word freedom.. not a literal prison sentencethankfully, i have never seen the inside of any state institution, .

Pahpa

It does seem fitting that an organization that demands control over its members and restrains their ability to make decisions on their own is called THE WATCHTOWER. True, the confinement is often self induced. But the end results is always the same: the loss of personal freedom and the constant oversight of guards.

9

The end is near!

by Cellist in

jw
friends

i'm reading a book by roy strong entitled, "the arts in britain - a history" and i came across an interesting point (one of many, lol).

it states, 'what sets the 1640s and 1650s apart is this all-pervading sense that mankind was living in the last age of the world.

the apocalyptic atmosphere which was unleashed by the civil war in 1642 cut right across society and was to ebb and flow in intensity for two decades according to the turn of events and then, in 1660, with the return of the monarchy, plunge underground.

Pahpa

Christians down through the centuries have thought they were living in the "end times." They could point to the events of their time that seem to fit the "end time" descriptions in the Bible. Even some of the prominent Reformers like Luther and Calvin believed this. But the end did not come.

This should be a note of caution for Christians. Many Evangelicals and other fundamental Protestant organizations are preaching the same message today. (It is not the exclusive territory of Jehovah's Witnesses.) But the fact remains that Jesus said we would not "know the day or hour" and that it would come as a "thief" in the night.(Matthew 24:36, 44)

Unfortunately, disappointment in human organizations and their prophecies have caused some Christians to abandon their faith in God. This is even reflected in the Forum discussions.

8

Now they are reviving Armstrong...

by mouthy in

.

click here: raising the ruins: the fight to revive the legacy of herbert w. armstrong.

Pahpa

When the World Wide Church of God went back to orthodoxy under the leadership of Joseph Tkach Sr., many in the Armstrong organization left the church and formed groups that still held to his teachings. Tkach was appointed by Herbert Armstong as his successor. (One might recall that he had a falling out with his son years before.) But once entrenched Tkach began to eliminate a lot of Armstrong's teachings many that were similar to the Watchtower. He made a final break. But the religious empire that Armstrong built (Ambassador College, etc.) had to be dismantled and sold.

The book should be an interesting read.

14

Photographs and Illustrations in WT Publications

by RubyStevens in

this is i guess geared more toward bethelites or those in the know.

in the endless sunday meetings i was always facinated by the photographs and pictures in the books and magazines.

is there a large photo studio at bethel were the pictures are taken?

Pahpa

I know at least one couple that was used for a Watchtower illustration while serving at Bethel. They left Bethel very disillusioned by what they experienced during the early 80s when Ray Franz and others were caught up in the witch hunt that occurred at the Headquarters. They returned home to continue to pioneer. But they shared their experiences with old friends. They were eventually disfellowshipped...but not before they were instrumental in helping scores of individuals leave the organization. I'll never forget their comment to me: "You think it is bad in the congregations, you should see what is happening at Bethel."

So, it is rather ironic that some "apostates" do appear in the Watchtower publications by way of these illustrations.