Pahpa

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Posts by Pahpa

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  8

  So why dont JW's believe that Jesus is Devine

  by JesusIsKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for jw's this is not an opinion question, so i would like to know your reasons for not believing he is.

  thank you..

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  Pahpa

  Opps....meant to say the "unitarian movement has continued on from earlest time....."
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  8

  So why dont JW's believe that Jesus is Devine

  by JesusIsKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for jw's this is not an opinion question, so i would like to know your reasons for not believing he is.

  thank you..

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  Pahpa

  I don't think JWs objected to the word "divine" as applying to Christ in earlier times. For years the Watchtower used those translations that rendered John 1:1 as "...and the Word was divine" as an alternative to the majority of tranlations that read "....and the Word was God." It only fell out of use when the NWT came along with "....and the Word as a god." This caused a storm of controversy among other Bible scholars.

  Jehovah's Witnesses are unitarian. They reject the doctine of the trinity. This is not an exclusive teaching of the Watchtower organization since the trinitarian movement has continued from the earliest of times. Each side has its own scriptural arguments as to the relationship of Christ to God. And the debate will, undoubtedly, continue on...
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  7

  profit making organisation?

  by alibongo58 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been reading many slanderous things about the jw's - can anyone give me a reason why a)it would be called a profit making organisation - exactly who is profiting?

  and b)if it is so wrong, brainwashing the millions, then who is at the top, benefiting from deceiving all these millions of people?

  can anyone out there can help me answer these questions?

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  Pahpa

  The profit of the organization comes from various sources. The sale of literature, the generous contributions of members, the sale of real estate, the returns from investments, etc. I don't think any individual or group of men within the organization have become wealthy as a result of this. But for the organization itself it is very "profitable." The advantages that the Watchtower leaders have are from are the perks they receive from the organization. They live comfortably in the midst of New York City. They travel extensively to all parts of the world. They have the best accomodations. They receive generous "gifts" from the members. And they are treated as special people among Jehovah's Witnesses.

  The most disturbing factor is that the Watchtower Society here in the U.S. has refused "financial disclosure." So, we just don't know how wealthy the organization is and wonder why it has been so reluctant to come forth with this information. But it has been listed among other wealthy corporations in New York city.
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  8

  The double standards of "I accept no blood products"

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  have you ever visited a jw in hospital where the sign "i accept no blood products" is fastened to the wall, only.

  to learn that the jw is fine with having blood fractions from someone else's blood.. .

  i hate the society for doing this to people.

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  Pahpa

  The disgusting thing about this blood issue is that many JWs lost their lives because no blood or its components could be transfused according to early Watchtower rules. One can not dismiss the enormity of error by saying that these JWs at least remained faithful to Jehovah. Lives were lost because of the decision of a group of old men at Bethel who later changed their minds and said it was "a matter of conscience."

  They would do well to read some of their own approved articles about "blood guilt" and "community responsibility."
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  8

  Shunning....Society bases it's stance on Early Roman Catholic Church!

  by restrangled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am sure many of you long time members are very familiar with this historian but for anyone who hasn't heard of him before, including myself, i think this is extremely helpful.. the wbts quotes the historian, edward gibbon, to support their stance on shunning in today's world.

  (1988 watchtower article on their website today, ....but since moved.).

  this was posted in another thread but i think it was lost.

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  Pahpa

  Restangled:

  Interesting information. Thanks for sharing it with us.

  I can't comprehend how the Watchtower organization can really believe that disfellowshipping and shunning would lead a person to repentence particularly if an individual was disfellowshipped merely for disagreeing with the Watchtower Society on some teaching. It is a form of spiritual blackmail. The cruel and unchristian act of shunning only fortifies the the reality that this is not God's organization. It repels rather than appeals.

  The early church was very tolerant of members who disagreed with various doctrines within the church. Measures were taken only against those who had extreme views that generally denied Christ or who had committed gross immoral acts. Even then, it was with the view of restoring and healing the individual. Mercy, not justice, seemed to be the leading motivation. The later development of excommunication and shunning seems to be closely related to the effort of the leaders to assert their authority and domination over the members. This is certainly true of the Watchtower organization today.
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  11

  Faithful and Discreet Slave as Sole Channel?

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in 1930 more than 34,000 people professed to be of the anointed.

  they did not believe themselves to be the faithful and discreet slave, as a class; they believed c.t.

  russell had been and that j.f.

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  Pahpa

  Another puzzle in this convoluted teaching of the Watchtower is why the "anointed" members who are not of the Governing Body are "out of the loop" when it comes to decision making regarding the doctrines and policies of the organization. In fact, it is only a very small number of the "anointed" who directs and controls the entire organization including the other anointed members. So, how can it be said that all the anointed comprise the FDS class?
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  8

  Judge Rutherford couldn't admit wrong, so he invented this stuff....

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  judge rutherford had this massively successful campaign called "millions now living will never die.".

  that's very appealing.

  in that campaign, the end was 'right around the corner' just as it had been for .

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  Pahpa

  The extraordinary irony of it all his how the Watchtower tries to justify these errors by saying that even though these things didn't turn out as expected it did demonstrate how devoted to God Jehovah's Witnesses were. Yet, if other religious organizations did the same thing they would be branded as "false teachers" or "false prophets" by the Watchtower leaders.

  Jehovah hates two standards of measurement. "Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight or quantity. Use honest scales and honest wieghts...." Lev. 19:35, 36)
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  7

  "Honor" of one's parents

  by Pahpa in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  honor is defined in the dictionary as "esteem, respect, reverence.

  " the first commandment relating to human relationships was to "honor your father and mother.

  " (exodus 20) this even included giving material assistance to them if they were in need.

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  Pahpa

  Honor is defined in the dictionary as "esteem, respect, reverence." The first Commandment relating to human relationships was to "honor your father and mother." (Exodus 20) This even included giving material assistance to them if they were in need.

  By Jesus' time the Pharisees and teachers of the law had twisted the command and excused individuals for disobeying it by saying that "whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift (corban) devoted to God." I'm amazed about the similarity between this and the attitude among JWs today. Parents who are disfellowshipped are shunned and ignored all in the name of religious faith. JWs rationalize that since "Jehovah is our father and the organization is our mother" they have no obligation toward their fleshly parents. But as Jesus warned the religious leaders of his day: "Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 'These peope honor me with the lips but their hearts are for from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men." (Matthew 153-9)
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  22

  Ex JWs that suffered to an unusual degree

  by greendawn in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  do you know of ex jws that suffered greatly due to the policies of the wts?

  i personally don't know any but i suppose those that left behind parents, spouse and children got a very bad deal since the wts dictates shunning from all these.

  also those that lost relatives to the blood policy.

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  Pahpa

  It has been over 25 years now that my wife and I have been separated from our oldest daughter and her three children. We have not even seen our grandchildren during this time. My wife's sisters refuse to have any communication with her or her 96 year old mother who lives with us. Unless one has experienced this heartache one can not appreciate how devasting and cruel are the Watchtower policies of disfellowshipping and shunning. It has destroyed thousands of families.

  The Watcthower organization denies this. It says that shunning is a personal decision on the part of individual members. It's another case of where it refuses to take responsibility and passes the blame to individual members. But the fact remains that it is an unchristian policy that makes the Watchtower accountable.
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  16

  Why is the "Faithful and Discreet " parable literal when others are not?

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the 10/1 1998 watchtower study article titled,''jehovah,a god merciful and gracious'' there is a footnote that reads:.

  parables and other illustrations related in the bible did not necessarily take place in actuality.futhermore,since the purpose of these stories is to teach a moral lesson,there is no need to seek a symbolic meaning in every detail.. matthew 24:45-47, in the new world translation, reads "who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

  happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so.

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  Pahpa

  The Watchtower gives it more than just a parable status. It puts a prophetic twist to it and applies the fulfillment to itself. (Naturally!)

  Most commentaries say that this is just admonition for Christians (or Christian leaders) to be faithful to the teachings of Christ. It was Charles Russell's wife who applied it to her husband...later suggesting he became an "evil servant." Rutherford, much to the displeasure of the majority of Bible Students, applied it to the "annointed" leaders in the organization.

  It is interesting to read the parallel account in Luke 12:42-48 which gives a third alternative to the faithful and unfaithful servant. "But the one who does not know (his master's will) and does things deserving punishment WILL BE BEATEN WITH FEW BLOWS." I never had an elder who could explain what "class" this represented in the organization.