Posts by Earnest

55

Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

by BluesBrother in

it is a challenge next sunday for them .

due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

Earnest

The King of the North (Russia) continues to enter into "the land of the Decoration".

According to AsiaNews of 07/23/2020, the press office of the Lower Chamber of the Duma (the Russian parliament) reported yesterday that the effect of a bill passed last year (Article 7 of the federal law "On freedom of conscience and religious associations") foreigners cannot participate in the activities of Russian religious associations, or guide them. In addition to foreigners, the ban on participating and leading religious communities is also extended to people classified as extremists and terrorists, Religious personnel who have studied abroad and who show signs of "religious extremism" are also excluded.

I wonder if this is a reaction to the case of Dennis Christensen.which has resulted in international publicity.

14

New book on early Christianity

by careful in

i'm not quite sure that this post fits under jws/wts since they do not keep up with real biblical scholarship, but i don't know where else to post it.. thomas a. robinson (university of lethbridge) has just published a book through oxford university press on the earliest christians, entitled who were the first christians?

: dismantling the urban thesis.

for some years the idea has dominated scholarship that christianity grew strongly at first in ancient cities like rome, alexandria, and corinth; the notion has been largely influenced by wayne meeks' (of yale) thinking in his book the first urban christians (1986).. i once saw a member here cite meeks' idea of how many christians existed in the roman empire.

Earnest

The fifth volume on urban churches has been released - First urban churches 5: Colossae, Hierapolis, and Laodicea. Writings from the Greco-Roman world supplements 16. (Atlanta: SBL Press, 2019) which is reviewed here.

It includes chapters on Everyday Life in a Roman Town Like Colossae: The Papyrological Evidence, Employing Numismatic Evidence in Discussions of Early Christianity in the Lycus Valley: A Case Study from Laodicea and
The Inscriptions and Oracular Prophecy in the Eastern Mediterranean Basin: Assessing the Book of Revelation in Its Graeco–Roman Revelatory Context:

Overall, the book provides a summary of the Greco–Roman archaeological, numismatic, and inscriptional evidence from Colossae, Laodicea, and Hierapolis and its relationship with the documents of the New Testament associated with the region (Colossians, Philemon, and the message to the assembly at Laodicea described in Rev. 3:14-22).

9

AUSTRALIA | 23 July 2020 - Jehovah’s Witnesses Kingdom Hall bomber found guilty by Supreme Court

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

leonard warwick has been found guilty for a number of bombings committed during the 1980’s, including the family court bombing and the jehovah’s witnesses casula congregation kingdom hall bombing on 21 july 1985 which killed the public speaker, graham wykes, and injured 13 others.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/leonard-warwick-family-court-bomber-found-guilty/12483286.

side note: i have been closely following this story for 35 years now, including the past few years of supreme court hearings, much of which dealt with the jehovah’s witnesses kingdom hall bombing..

Earnest

FatFreek 2005: Anything to indicate this perpetrator is or was a JW?

In evidence given in 2018 it seems the motivation was that "members of the church had helped Mr Warwick's ex-wife move to northern New South Wales".

It seems unlikely he was a JW (although I don't know) because the evidence against him was that "a week before that blast, the hall was broken into and bloodstains on carpet and cardboard boxes later became key in linking Warwick, via DNA, to the crimes."

11

Elder manuals

by dogisgod in

pre elder arrangement.

we had congregation overseer.

when did the society begin publishing the secret “elder” books and training..

Earnest

There was a 1955 booklet Preaching Together in Unity and a 1960 booklet Preaching and Teaching in Peace and Unity but these were available to all Witnesses and didn't discuss judicial matters.

Both booklets say in the foreword that every dedicated witness should read the booklet carefully, study it and work in harmony with the arrangements [for meetings and field service] and the organization. They also say the booklets should be studied in the service meetings of the congregation from time to time, so no exclusivity there.

22

Thoughts on Sunning and blood Doctrines.

by Phizzy in

i have a couple of thoughts on the blood and shunning doctrines, both of which have been covered well before.

here, and on j.w facts.com and elsewhere.. but i would like to point out the following, the only scriptures they can use in reality for their blood doctrine are the verses from acts chapter 15. o.t verse are really out of the question, and dishonest to use on their part, as they do not follow most of the injunctions in there!.

the context of acts 15 is a council of the apostles and others in the jerusalem congregation, to decide what they should ask of gentile christians in the way of behaviours and practices etc, as jewish christians were demanding they comply with the mosaic law, or were, at the very least offended if they did not.

Earnest

Phizzy : The writings of Paul make it plain that the O.T. Laws are "fulfilled" as he puts it, the only law Christians are under is " the law of the Christ".

When Paul writes that the O.T. laws are fulfilled he is particularly referring to the law of Moses. He writes in Romans 13:8-10:

Do not owe anything to anyone except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law. For the law code, “You must not commit adultery, you must not murder, you must not steal, you must not covet," and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this saying: “You must love your neighbor as yourself." Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore, love is the law’s fulfillment.

It is a given that the Law given to Israel was for a particular purpose for that nation. It is not dishonest or cherry-picking to say that the "laws" given to Noah apply to everyone, because the Bible teaches (whether you believe it or not) that everyone descended from Noah.

I am not arguing whether or not the application of these laws by Jehovah's Witnesses is correct, but that the law on the sanctity of blood/life is universal.

22

Thoughts on Sunning and blood Doctrines.

by Phizzy in

i have a couple of thoughts on the blood and shunning doctrines, both of which have been covered well before.

here, and on j.w facts.com and elsewhere.. but i would like to point out the following, the only scriptures they can use in reality for their blood doctrine are the verses from acts chapter 15. o.t verse are really out of the question, and dishonest to use on their part, as they do not follow most of the injunctions in there!.

the context of acts 15 is a council of the apostles and others in the jerusalem congregation, to decide what they should ask of gentile christians in the way of behaviours and practices etc, as jewish christians were demanding they comply with the mosaic law, or were, at the very least offended if they did not.

Earnest

Phizzy : the only Scriptures they can use in reality for their Blood Doctrine are the verses from Acts Chapter 15. O.T verse are really out of the question,...

Keep in mind that Genesis 9:4 "Only flesh with its soul - its blood - YOU must not eat" was given to Noah and could be understood to apply to his descendants, i.e, everyone. The commands given to Noah are known as the Noahide Laws.

11

Elder manuals

by dogisgod in

pre elder arrangement.

we had congregation overseer.

when did the society begin publishing the secret “elder” books and training..

Earnest

There was a book published in 1961 called Kingdom Service Questions which was

...for the guidance of the congregation committee in handling matters with members of the congregation. It can be referred to as the basis for reaching decisions and complying with the Society's policy, but it is not to be studied at any meeting, nor placed in general circulation among the publishers.

I am sure there must have been similar publications before this. The first Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, which eventually became Shepherd the Flock of God, was published in 1977 and was used in the Kingdom Ministry School course for elders.

31

Just wanting confirmation on an unofficial JW experience

by joe134cd in

just wondering if anyone can confirm or deny this unofficial jw experience that my father received by email.

i’ve told him that it against wt rules to forward unofficial accounts.

but of course he just puts that down to apostate driven lies.

Earnest

millie2010 : Also, how did the "brother" who works for zoom get her email address? Did the CEO forward her personal info to all 2000 employees?

In the account being circulated here it says :

A few minutes later, she received another email. This was from a Brother who works at zoom, who had been hired when the company first started up. He said the CEO had forwarded her emails to all 2000 US Employees!!!

31

Just wanting confirmation on an unofficial JW experience

by joe134cd in

just wondering if anyone can confirm or deny this unofficial jw experience that my father received by email.

i’ve told him that it against wt rules to forward unofficial accounts.

but of course he just puts that down to apostate driven lies.

Earnest

I can confirm this is also circulating outside the United States.

A sister in Brooklyn, while doing zoom witnessing with her congregation, decided to write a letter to Zoom to thank them for how they have helped us all through this quarantine. So she looked for an email and saw that the customer service email comes with a statement that due to high volume of requests, no one is able to read the emails. She wanted a human to read her letter so she decided to find the CEO's email address. It was hard work, and she kept looking on different websites without giving up and found it. She emailed him (the letter was beautiful!) a loving letter, thanking him, identifying herself as a JW, telling him how it has helped us remain encouraged and united and helped us continue our preaching and teaching work and she thanked him for keeping the basic 40minute plan free and how this was so different than other corporate greed that is seen in the world today. Under her signature she referred him to jw.org Then she took the time and translated it into Spanish and sent both versions to the CEO.
30 minutes later, she was out walking her dog, and the CEO wrote her back personally! He thanked her for her kind letter and how much he appreciated her taking the time to write him and how happy he was that Zoom was able to help keep so many people connected and encouraged. She was so happy, she didn't know what to do, and looked up at the sky and said a prayer of thanks to Jehovah. A few minutes later, she received another email. This was from a Brother who works at zoom, who had been hired when the company first started up. He said the CEO had forwarded her emails to all 2000 US Employees!!! What a fine witness this young sister gave to so many people!

While there may be a few small embellishments that got tacked on in the telling, the substance of the email could quite well be true. joe134cd, if your father circulates this to others it would not make him look foolish except to those prone to ridicule.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

Earnest

Phizzy : Under U.K Law and no doubt in the USA and other Countries, it would make it plain that you would Sue for Defamation of Character, if they are merely declaring you, in an Announcement, as DA'd.

In the Swiss case against Regina Spiess on a charge of defamation she was found not guilty either because what she wrote was true (Proof of Truth) or because she had good reason to believe it was true.(Proof of Good Faith) or because it could not be construed as defamation..

If you have produced a document (whenever it was dated) to say you are no longer a member of Jehovah's Witnesses, and confirm that, and then an announcement is made at the Kingdom Hall that you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, how can that possibly be defamatory.

Phizzy : what on earth are they going to say ?

Likely they would say you told us you were no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you showed it to us in writing, and so we informed the congregation. Case closed.