Posts by Earnest

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Earnest

Sea Breeze, I have not read of any experts who discussed the fact that in the expression "God Jesus Christ", "Jesus" is in the genitive case, which has to mean "God of Jesus". This is Greek101, unless you can suggest an alternative translation which takes the genitive case into account there is nothing to discuss.

As for the inscription which credits Gaianus, also known as Porphyrius, a Roman centurion, for funding the mosaic as an act of generosity, this is hardly surprising as there was a Roman camp right next to the village. More than likely, in my opinion, his family lived in the village and probably attended the prayer hall. In fact, another inscription memorialises four women who may have been related to him. I certainly agree it seems members of the Roman army were allowed to be part of the Christian community (as were members of Caesar's household), but the army served in both an administrative and a military capacity so that may be reflected in the Christian position. A bit like our civil service, if I was to draw any modern comparison with their function at that time and place.

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Earnest

Vienne, thanks for raising this subject again. I found the inscription very interesting and believe we should follow the truth wherever it leads. However, the inscription is quite unusual in several respects. The Israel Antiquities Authority published a report on the building - A Christian Prayer Hall of the Third Century CE at Kefar Othnay (Legio) - and there reported on the inscription, saying (p.41) "... the formula 'God Jesus Christ' is as a rule absent from Byzantine inscriptions, which always refer to the Savior as 'Lord Jesus Christ' or 'Christ our God' ".

Could it mean anything other than "God Jesus Christ" ? If we break down the nomen sacrum, they read "theo" (θῷ), in the dative case meaning "to God" or "to the God", "Iesou" (Ἰῦ), the genitive form of Jesus' name i.e. "of Jesus", and "christo" (Χῷ) which is also in the dative case and means "to Christ". So a straight-forward translation would be :

"The god-loving Akeptous has offered the table to [the] God of Jesus [and] to Christ as a memorial".

Any other translation has to account for the expression "theo Iesou" (to God of Jesus) which is certainly more in line with the christology of this period.

26

JULY 15TH STUDY EDITION :"If ever that evil slave..." page 24

by raymond frantz in

box on page 24 of the july 15th titled :"if ever the evil slave....".

jesus has placed the weightiest of responsibilities on the faithful and discreet slave-namely,overseeing the domestics and giving out spiritual food atthe proper time.

jesus knew that those with greater responsibility have greater accountability.

Earnest

Vanderhoven7 : The leaders have prematurely seized control for themselves, and consolidated that control.

The Watchtower article "Who Really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave" of July 15, 2013, discusses when the slave is appointed over all the Master's belongings. It says :

It is noteworthy that in Jesus’ illustration, the faithful and discreet slave receives two distinct appointments. The first is over the domestics; the second is over all the master’s belongings ... Note that Jesus makes the second appointment after he arrives and finds that the slave has been “doing so,” that is, faithfully dispensing spiritual food. So there would be an interval between the two appointments.
...
In view of the foregoing, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment—over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their heavenly reward, becoming corulers with Christ.

27

BEROEAN PICKETS:- VIcky And Mike's Story. "Judged To Be Like The Antichrist "

by buzkid in

vicky and mike hobbs are ex jehovah’s witnesses and ex beroean pickets members their personal statements and experiences within the beroean pickets bible study groups wasn't pleasant.

and vicky was likened to the antichrist because of her differing views.

spiritual abuse is becoming more widespread and the purpose of this interview is to raise awareness, provide education around spiritual and religious abuse, and to keep the public safe.

Earnest

In Studies in Biblical and Christian Archaeology in Memory of Michele Piccirillo, Jerusalem, 2013, O. Gutfeld and A. Ecker write about the ancient Greek inscription shown in the video above. As regards the dating of the inscription they say (p.168) :

Partial excavation of the cistern has yielded pottery dating from the 5th to 7th or 8th century CE and from the 13th to 15th centuries CE. The ﬂat base of the letters, especially that of the sigma, hints at a date between the 7th and 8th century.This date ﬁts well with the latest evidence of Christian activity at the site (Patrich J. - Tsafrir Y. 1993. “A Byzantine Church Complex at Hor- vat Beit Loya,” in Y. Tsafrir (ed.), Ancient Churches Revealed, Jerusalem, 265).

Unfortunately a dating of late second/early third century is wishful thinking.

18

JW BORG does not have clergy-laity like Christendom! 😄

by BoogerMan in

(because they told us so in a wt!.

w71 6/1 p. 330 par.

10 - "another reason why many feel there is no place for them in the service of god is due to the clergy-laity distinction that is fostered in the churches.

Earnest

NotFormer : There's no precedent for MS ...

Of course there is a precedent for MS, just as there is for elder and overseer. In most churches they are known as deacons, which is a transliteration of Διακόνους (1 Timothy 3:8). However, I would not defend a scriptural basis for CO and DO as such, although the principle of Paul visiting various congregations is used to justify it.

90

What is Your Favorite WT Lie?

by Sea Breeze in

i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.

surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.

my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.

Earnest

Sea Breeze : I remember being train to say this in the 60's: "We are not a church. We're Jehovah's Witnesses".

I remember that, but I remember it as Jehovah's witnesses, as part of the succession of witnesses in Hebrews 11.

37

Is it just me, or is Watchtower lowering its standards?

by ukpimo in

in the past, we used to hear talks on:.

avoiding sexual immorality and porn, as well as masturbation and other sexual practices.

why evolution cannot possibly be true.

Earnest

Shepherd the Flock of God, April 2024, Chapter 14 ("Child Abuse") Section 24

One who has engaged in child sexual abuse does not qualify to receive any privileges in the congregation for many years, if ever; this includes minor privileges. ... If the body of elders believes that one who has engaged in child sexual abuse decades ago may now qualify for minor privileges, such as working with audio/video support (which includes working with the stage and passing microphones), serving as an attendant, or assisting with accounts, literature, or territories, they should assign two elders to call the Service Department.The assigned elders should call the Service Department before any congregation privileges are extended.

37

Is it just me, or is Watchtower lowering its standards?

by ukpimo in

in the past, we used to hear talks on:.

avoiding sexual immorality and porn, as well as masturbation and other sexual practices.

why evolution cannot possibly be true.

Earnest

Vidiot : I can’t find any info about this case.

RKJW1 DOE, respondent, v. WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETYOF NEW YORK, INC.

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

Earnest

aqwsed12345 : while some Gnostic writings, such as the Tripartite Tractate, also addressed heresies, this comparison is flawed. Gnosticism represents an entirely separate theological framework, often fundamentally incompatible with the beliefs of mainstream Christianity.

The Tripartite Tractate was certainly a second- or third-century Christian treatise. Elaine Pagels writes in The Gnostic Gospels :

What distressed Irenaeus most was that the majority of Christians did not recognize the followers of Valentinus as heretics. Most could not tell the difference between Valentinian and orthodox teaching; after all, he says, most people cannot differentiate between cut glass and emeralds either! But, he declares, "although their language is similar to ours," their views "not only are very different, but at all points full of blasphemies."

aqwsed12345 : Furthermore, many Gnostic texts were preserved precisely because they were not systematically suppressed in the way you suggest—several were hidden or preserved by their own communities, not burned by the orthodox Church.

They may have been hidden or preserved by their own communities, as at Nag Hammadi, but those who described them as heretics certainly encouraged the destruction of their texts. Due to this, most evidence for the Valentinian system comes from its critics and detractors, most notably Irenaeus, since he was especially concerned with refuting Valentinianism. Obviously an unbiased source.

The point is that what you call orthodox in the second and early third century was nothing of the sort. Each group considered themselves to be "orthodox", or "true Christians". At a stretch you may be able to describe them as proto-orthodox but that is only in hindsight.

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

Earnest

Sea Breeze : Early Christian leaders wrote thousands of pages in letters to one another combatting heretics.

Did you know it was not only "orthodox" christians that wrote about heretics. There were Gnostic heresiologies of which we have some record from Nag Hammadi, such as the Tripartate Tractate and the Testimony of Truth. No doubt Arius and others also described those they believed were distorting scripture as heretics, but unfortunately everything they wrote was burned. So, in this period, Christians of a variety of persuasions made use of the notion of heresy and used it to discredit their opponents in hopes of staking out a secure, enforced and recognised claim to orthodoxy. The fact that the works of Justin, Irenaeus, Hegesippus et. al. survived reflects more on whether or not they could be accommodated with the Athanasian faction at Nicaea than any scriptural truths.