Posts by Earnest

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Earnest

TTWSYF : Apologies to you both as I stand corrected!

Thank you for your gracious apology. It takes a lot of humility to admit when a mistake has been made.

There was a previous discussion about Jason BeDuhn at a time when most contributors were both scholarly and gracious. A poster, Ginny Tosken, wrote to Dr BeDuhn and the exchange between them as well as comments by AlanF, hillary_step and other giants from the past are well worth reading. The thread is Prof. Jason BeDuhn letter on the NWT/KIT.

45

GB Update - Meet the new GB members

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

i overheard my wife listening to '2023 governing body update #2, presented by kenneth cook jnr.

a few points i got from it.. new hour requirements.

quote "with the new hour requirements for pioneers, many us us can share in the pioneer work.

Earnest

Vanderhoven7 : Here is a cool picture of the ... only ones God has mandated as his spokesman.

Geoffrey Jackson said, at the ARC, it "would seem quite presumptuous to say that".

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Earnest

TTWSYF : Dr. Jason [BeDuhn] never endorses the New World translation.

In his book, Truth in Translation, 2003, Dr. BeDuhn compares nine different translations for accuracy and bias in the NT - King James Version, (New) Revised Standard Version, New International Version, New American Bible, New American Standard Bible, Amplified Bible, Living Bible, Today's English Version, and New World Translation.

In his conclusion he says (p.163) :

While it is difficult to quantify this sort of analysis, it can be said that the NW emerges as the most accurate of the translations compared. Holding a close second to the NW in its accuracy, judging by the passages we have looked at, is the NAB. Both of these are translations produced by single denominations of Christianity. Despite their distinctive doctrinal commitments, the translators managed to produce works relatively more accurate and less biased than the translations produced by multi-denominational teams, as well as those produced by single individuals.

Again, sorry, but those are the facts.

18

IICSA Final Report

by Phizzy in

the english legal system's independent inquiry into child sexual abuse has issued its final report, and its recommendations.

to read the report in full just google iicsa report, if you search on the iicsa site you can find the specific investigation into j.w's.. but this recommendation from the final report is interesting, esp.

the first and last sentences.

Earnest

The Home Secretary in the UK, Yvette Cooper, has announced today in Parliament that it will be mandatory for professionals in a position of trust – including teachers, doctors, priests and social workers – to report child sexual abuse that they know of. This will be implemented in the Crime & Policing Bill this Spring and failure to report will become a criminal offence.

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Earnest

TTWSYF : NO SCHOLARLY ORGANIZATION INCLUDING ANY COLLEGES OR UNIVERSITIES RECOGNIZES THE NWT AS A LEGIT TRANSLATION….sorry, but that’s the facts

In most cases, bible translations are decided by particular lecturers or departments. When the department or lecturer is affiliated with a particular religious view then it is likely they will use a translation sympathetic to their view.

However, there is an FAQ discussing whether the NWT is accurate and that includes positive comments about the NWT from non-Witness scholars. One of these is Jason BeDuhn who is currently Professor of Religious Studies at Northern Arizona University. He wrote a letter to Watchtower in 1998 when he was Associate Professor of Religious Studies and Chair of the Department of Humanities, Arts and Religion at Northern Arizona University. In the letter he said :

“I have just completed teaching a course for the Religious Studies Department of Indiana University, Bloomington, [U.S.A.] . . . This is primarily a course in the Gospels. Your help came in the form of copies of The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures which my students used as one of the textbooks for the class. These small volumes were invaluable to the course and very popular with my students.”

Why does Dr. BeDuhn use the Kingdom Interlinear translation in his college courses? He answers:

“Simply put, it is the best interlinear New Testament available. I am a trained scholar of the Bible, familiar with the texts and tools in use in modern biblical studies, and, by the way, not a member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. But I know a quality publication when I see one, and your ‘New World Bible Translation Committee’ has done its job well. Your interlinear English rendering is accurate and consistent to an extreme that forces the reader to come to terms with the linguistic, cultural, and conceptual gaps between the Greek-speaking world and our own. Your ‘New World Translation’ is a high quality, literal translation that avoids traditional glosses in its faithfulness to the Greek. It is, in many ways, superior to the most successful translations in use today.”

Sorry, but that's the facts.

26

Age Appropriate Friends

by Riley in

jw
friends

we have a 25 year guy in our hall who is also a pioneer (which means he lives off his parents money), who likes to spend a lot of time with a 16 year old girl in the hall.

it is usually in a group setting but he seems to gravitate toward her.

he even has her auxilary pioneering , which is something i don't think any student trying to make the grades needs.

Earnest

Whether or not it is legal to marry at the age of 16 in the UK, it is legal to have sex unless the "partner" is in a position of trust or power (a teacher, for example) such that the 16-year-old is their responsibility, in which case the age of consent is 18.

Paradoxically, it is illegal to have intimate photographs of anyone under the age of 18.

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Earnest

Sea Breeze : Unitarians frequently state that 1+1+1 = 3 not one. Yet they have no problem believeing that H2O can exist as a solid, gas, or liquid and yet be one substance.

A belief that Jesus, like water, can exist in three states but remain the same substance is the "heresy" of modalism, or Sabellianism, which teaches that God is one person appearing in three different modes. This was held by some early Jewish Christian groups but is generally held to be heresy by orthodox christianity today.

I concur with peacefulpete that if you want to discuss the nature of man it would be more productive to start a thread on it yourself.

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Earnest

peacefulpete : The [Logos] concepts were much older and pervasive than a single author. It is entirely possible the author of John never read Philo but was drawing from a larger milieu of thought.

Not only entirely possible but quite likely. Was it not the Stoics who identified the logos spermatikos as the cosmic source of order? How easy for an educated Jew to connect the Logos of John to this "larger milieu of thought", to this cosmic source of order, especially long before any councils had decided what they had to believe.

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Earnest

aqwsed12345 : These authors [Bart Ehrman, Adolf von Harnack, Edward Gibbon] selectively focus on outlier groups or speculative reconstructions, neglecting the overwhelming evidence of continuity in apostolic teaching.

I am not surprised that you reject Bart Ehrman, but Adolf von Harnack was the leading early church historian in Germany, and indeed everywhere else in his time, a stupendously learned scholar. It is no exaggeration to say that he had read every available source regarding early Christianity in many languages and presents all the evidence up to 325 CE, which, as a collection of evidence, has not been surpassed in 100 years.

No matter. It seems you will reject everyone who does not project your worldview regardless of their expertise. But since you say his "works are heavily criticized for imposing modern skepticism on ancient sources", perhaps you could support your allegation with an example.

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Earnest

peacefulpete : It is very doubtful that the WT would use Gnostic theology as support for their own.

Agreed. However, I found your earlier point about Philo interesting because you had previously said the JW angelology/christology had been "eruditely and thoroughly refuted". Yet, regarding Philo you said

The linking of the Jewish notion of Word, Glory, Name and the Greek concept of Logos implies that the Logos was on earth in patriarchal times leading the Israelites through the wilderness and dwelling in the tabernacle. In the same manner Philo conceived of the Word, Glory, Name and angel in the OT stories, that is how he conceived the Logos.

Do you not think that those Jews familiar with Philo's Logos philosophy would have associated the Logos of John with the angel of the Lord who lead the Israelites through the wilderness, appeared to Abraham, etc etc. In Darrell Hannah's Michael and Christ: Michael Traditions and Angel Christology in Early Christianity he discusses Philo as well as Jewish Apocalyptic Literature, Qumran Literature, Rabbinic and Hekhalot Literature and it seems obvious that early Jewish Christianity identified the pre-existent Logos with the angel of the Lord.