Posts by truthsearcher

It seems that the WT perhaps following the old Catholic method of penance for sin. You all must have really needed to suffer for that type of treatment! But seriously, what were they thinking?? Even Jesus looked after the physical needs of the crowds that followed him.

I wonder though if you were all getting some training in mind control. After all, how long can your conscious mind remain alert under those conditions? And for little children, whose attention span lasts, what, 30 minutes? So you tune out most of what is being said and just endure to the end. Then with eyes glazed over, everyone rises to their feet and chants "Yes Master, we hear and obey."

56

My Wife Just Left Me Because of the Evil Watchtower

by rassillon in

jw
friends

this is very difficult to write because i am crying.

i am normally not the kind of person you will ever see cry because things don't affect me that much but this has got to be the hardest things i have ever went through.. i just got through discussing with my wife my feelings.

i guess it has been hard to hid some of the things that i have felt since i have learned that many of the wt teachings are false.

truthsearcher

So sorry to hear about this turn of events, R. Many here are feeling for you, but it doesn't take away the tears, does it? May you find comfort from knowing that the Lord cares deeply about you both, and this breaks His heart too. Could you call a sympathetic elder so he can help your wife to see that Jehovah hates it when marriages break up? Or what about a family member? Please keep in touch with your friends here on JWD.

TS

21

What sorts of books or other material do you read?

by zagor in

jw
friends

i dont think i have a particular style.

in fact it changed through different stages of my life.

as a kid i loved reading novels, which changed once i came into my teens, and i started developing interest in hard stuff of natural world, psychology, ancient cultures and mysteries.

truthsearcher

I have to admit it: We are all bibliophiles in this house! Everyone has piles of books in every room. Since we homeschool, we have alot of the classics and we spend time every day in silent reading and reading aloud. I try to tie in our readings with things we are studying. This year we are doing the history of Western Civilization. They loved the Greek and Roman myths. We made our way through Ben Hur before Christmas. We laughed our heads off at the Adventures of Robin Hood. We have just finished the Scottish Reformation (hate to say it, it was a bit boring at times for the kids, although my son did like the battles, beheadings, intrigue, gunpowder plots,etc...) We lalso oved the Tolkien and Narnia series and have read them several times. (Books are better than the movies).

As for me, I am a tender heart and love the Victorian novelists...yay for Pride and Prejudice! I also read alot concerning music history, theory and pedagogy.

In addition, we study the Bible, and like ABR, have piles of original language dictonaries, concordances, parallel Bibles, etc. within handy reach. Right now, I also have piles of old WT books, and books on how to help JWs out the org, that I spend a little bit of time each day wading through. I always have to make sure those are cleaned away before my JWs come for a visit.

PS. Hi Ty

13

Youths leaving...

by Anony-Mouse in

jw
friends

alright, i have a few questions about the 'young ones'.

i've heard that the rate at which younger kids are leaving has increased.

is this true?

truthsearcher

Hey: as a homeschooled student,have you had any contact with other homeschoolers? There are piles of us out there, and there are many groups and support organizations that offer a chance to get together with teens your age. You may never have met any because of being isolated from "bad associations", but these people are awesome! They have been involved in all sorts of activities and are often really interesting, fun, and have clean morals and strong family ties. You might find that you would have things in common with them. You could do some investigating and see if there is anything like that in your area. Just a suggestion...

TS

4

LET'S PLAY SPOT THE SIMILARITIES! Taylorites #1

by truthsearcher in

i am on this discussion board for support because i am meeting with the local jws to discuss scripture and hopefully plant seeds of doubt that will eventually lead to them leaving the organization.

you may also know that my mother was raised in a different cult, and was dfd for marrying my father (an outsider).

this caused great suffering in our family, and we were shunned for many years.

truthsearcher

Good photo, W. Once. Now we just need Joseph Smith to round out the club...

Your observation about the webpage hits the nail on the head. Here is what an exEb had to say about that matter:

"I left the Exclusive Brethren ten years ago and know all three of the respondents. My reason for leaving was simply that it seemed hypocritical to me to publicly denounce the use of computers, while at the same time privately condoning their use for running their own organisation.

At the time that I left the organisation, virtually all UK members of the sect had to sign a form once a year, agreeing to their details being held on a computer database (the Exclusive Brethren called it an ‘Addressing System’). This consent was needed to satisfy the requirements of the Data Protection Act.

But we were also urged to approach schools attended by our children to witness to the wickedness of computers! Their justification for this contradiction between what we did and what we said was that ‘worldly people’ would not understand the ‘special’ use of the computer for the ‘Lord’s work’ at the Brethren publishing house.

Their attempts to justify this attitude helped me make up my own mind as to the deceit involved."

Anyone else out there care to comment?

4

LET'S PLAY SPOT THE SIMILARITIES! Taylorites #1

by truthsearcher in

i am on this discussion board for support because i am meeting with the local jws to discuss scripture and hopefully plant seeds of doubt that will eventually lead to them leaving the organization.

you may also know that my mother was raised in a different cult, and was dfd for marrying my father (an outsider).

this caused great suffering in our family, and we were shunned for many years.

truthsearcher

I am on this discussion board for support because I am meeting with the local JWs to discuss Scripture and hopefully plant seeds of doubt that will eventually lead to them leaving the organization.

You may also know that my mother was raised in a different cult , and was df’d for marrying my father (an outsider). This caused great suffering in our family, and we were shunned for many years. I have been researching my own roots, and have discovered some amazing similarities between the two cults which I would like to share with you. This is not to minimize the pain that any of you have gone through, or are going through right now. Rather it is to assure you that you were not alone in being a part of a cult, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Maybe you are still an active JW. If you are reading this, notice the similarities between these CULTS and consider the organization that you have dedicated your life to.

Name of Cult: Taylorites/aka Exclusive Brethren

Founder: J. N. Darby (1800-1882), whose rejection of the authority of the Church of Ireland, in which he was ordained, led to the founding of the Brethren movement. He was a man of great brilliance and vanity, casting himself in the role of the apostle Paul. In 1820 that the ‘Plymouth Brethren’ movement started when a group of Christians met in Plymouth, Devon, in England, for worship and the breaking of bread without the support or use of ordained ministers.

Similarities to WT: a group of independent Christians meeting together, under the leadership of a dynamic leader, rejecting the other church options of the time. They call themselves Brother and Sister.

Early Schisms: In 1848 there was a deep division between Darby and the Plymouth brethren. Darby insisted on separating from people who disagreed with his interpretations of Scripture, and a significant number followed him and became known as ‘Exclusives’. They believed in a universal worldwide network of fellowships, with strong central leadership and a tight control of members.

In contrast, the Plymouth Brethren were called ‘Open Brethren’. For them, each local assembly is independent and believers locally are themselves directly responsible to the Lord, not a human leader. This represents a major difference between the two sections of the Brethren movement. Note that I have been involved in the past with the Open Brethren and they were absolutely not cultic.

F. E. Raven assumed leadership when Darby died but within eight years a major division took place. Those who disagreed with Raven formed a separate assembly. After Raven’s death (1903), his group was led by James Taylor Sr (1870-1953). He insisted that the discussions of the brethren in formal assembly were equivalent in importance to Scripture. Further divisions occurred in 1920, 1935, 1951, 1960-61, and 1970. James Taylor Sr was succeeded by his son James Taylor Jr who died in 1970. James Symington then assumed the Taylorite leadership, followed by John Hales of Australia.

Similarities to WT: divisions among leadership over doctrinal matters, leading to many offshoot groups

Bible Translation

: Darby’s New Translation has the status of original holy writ

Similarities to WT: Producing their own doctrine-supporting translation

Location:

There are assemblies in 288 cities, approximately 27,000 members worldwide, mostly of European descent, in the UK, Ireland, Germany, Holland, Sweden, Denmark, France, Italy, Spain, South Africa, Argentina, Trinidad, St Vincent, Barbados, Jamaica, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and India. All meetings, whatever the native language, must be conducted in English.

Similarities to WT: a drop in the bucket compared to orthodox Christianity

Scripture undermined: In theory, Taylorites acknowledge the Bible’s authority, but in practice they compromise it. Raven wrote, ‘If I had to live over again I would study Scripture less and pray more. The great thing for a Christian is to get into his closet and pray. Prayer and meditation’ The statement tends subtly towards subjectivity and places the thoughts of a man above the Word of God.

The Bible’s sufficiency is also undermined. For example, Taylor Sr taught that the Holy Spirit speaks in meetings of the brethren in addition to what is inspired and recorded in the Bible. He insisted that the Holy Spirit is giving us truth today which was not given to the apostles. This ‘new light’ weakens the authority of the Bible over the lives and consciences of the members. They better not reject the teaching given by the ‘man of God’. Therefore members must give total allegiance to their leaders. Significant titles are given to their leader such as ‘the Lord’s representative’, the ‘contemporary Paul’, the ‘great man’ , ‘God’s representative on earth’. John S. Hales was described publicly as ‘the personification of the Holy Spirit’. This status was bolstered by the claim that ‘new light’ was being given to members by God, uniquely through him. As a consequence, the leader’s interpretation and application of Scripture are regarded as binding on members.

Similarities to the WT: New light (yes they use these same terms!), elevation of Men over the the Bible. Allegiance to men as being God's representative and channel of truth.
Legalism:
teaching on ‘separation’ is based partly on 2 Corinthians 6:17 and Amos 3:3. Taylor Jr developed this teaching, appealing to 2 Timothy 2:19-22 as their ‘Magna Carta’. These verses are regarded as the divinely given basis for disassociating oneself from ‘evil’. Separation is compulsory, especially where there is disagreement concerning doctrine and practice as taught by the ‘man of God’. Contact with those in the world should be minimal. In 1959 Taylor Jr began to further develop the ‘separation’ teaching, urging that members should not eat with non-members. Ten years later a member estimated that Taylor had given 150 new ‘directives’, and others were later added. The result is legalism, with consciences bound by human regulations rather than by the Bible.
Examples:
Members must not attend religious services outside their exclusive movement

No joining a trade union or a professional association.

They can't live in the same building with non-members; even a semi-detached house is unacceptable as it shares a common wall! This is applied to paths or drive-ways to houses and even to sewers.

"Wordly" business links are also prohibited. They are dependent on one another for employment and financial security.

TV, films, radio, novels, public swimming, a mobile phone or CB radio are all banned. Computers as well as faxes are outlawed. In 1982 their leader, James Symington, maintained that computers are linked to the Antichrist. As a result, many members changed careers to comply with this ‘truth’.

No life insurance

Restrictions on travel

Where possible education should be within the cult. College/university is prohibited.

No house pets.

Beards and moustaches are forbidden

No dating. A couple who want to court and marry must obtain the approval of the ‘man of God’. .

Similarities to the WT: like the Pharisees in the New Testament who distorted and added to the Law, placing a great burden on the lives of Jews, this group also goes beyond the Bible to create burdens on its followers

That is all for now, next post I will discuss one of their key control practices: Disfellowshipping! I hope some of you found these ramblings interesting,

TS

13

Are any of you vocalists?

by exwitless in

i just posted a little of my singing lesson experience on black pearl's topic about piano lessons.

i was just wondering if anyone else is a vocalist.

have you taken lessons?

truthsearcher

I have loved singing since I was a child. My parents used to sing to me, and I used to sing myself to sleep at nights! Gran was a pro and Dad inherited a lovely bass voice that he used in a classical choir. My uncle sings in the pubs of Scotland. I finally studied voice as a part of my music degree, now I teach voice and piano. If you can't afford lessons, there are some good CDs of vocal exercises out there for expanding range, warm ups, breath capacity etc. Daily practice will increase your power. Don't overdo it though or you can injure those delicate muscles.

28

First Piano Lesson Tomorrow!! Need a littel advice.

by BlackPearl in

jw
friends

for most of my life i've wanted to learn to play the piano and learn to write music.

my wife got me a yamaha keyboard for christmas.

i am finally happy to report that i have my first lesson tomorrow morning.

truthsearcher

Hey BP:

Congratulations on taking the first step towards your goal of being a musician. I will add a few thoughts to the other excellent advice offered here (I'm also a piano teacher, who earned a piano degree as an adult).

Focus on the advantages of being an adult student: desire to learn is often stronger, more disciplined in practice routines, better intellectual grasp of musicianship. These things will help make up for less flexibility in the muscles, tendency towards being overly critical on self, unrealistic expectations, greater nervousness in public playing, sometimes more erratic practice and lesson times due to work schedule, etc.

Have you thought about your goals: What type of musician do you want to be? (ie play public recitals, just goof around on your own, play in a band, even teach, etc.) Don[t be afraid to dream big! But realize that it will take patience and dedication to get to that place, and at this point you probably will not be able to have a career as a concert pianist (although, you just never know!). What style of music do you want to play? Each style has basics that need to be mastered.

BTW, each of the aforementioned activities are important for all around musicianship: playing in front of others (even if it is just your family and friends) develops the skill of polishing a piece and expressing it for others to appreciate. Playing with others: your teacher will probably play duets with you, that's always lots of fun, and playing with other instruments is something you will want to experience. It teaches a new set of skills: listening to others, being really careful with timing, creating something wonderful as a group. Experiment on your own--be creative, explore all your instrument has to offer, compose something original, then share it!

Enjoy the expressive elements of music: when learning a piece, always think: what story or message do I want to express with this? What was the composer's intention? Always take it to that next level--even Mary Had a Little lamb, for example. Get the mental picture of the story: bright, happy, a bit naive, etc. and reflect that in the style of your playing. When you are first learning, it is easy to get bogged down in the notes, but once you have this mastered, go to that next level of expressing something. That is when you are an artiste

Pay attention to chord structures. Identifying/Using chords in learning to play will add greater richness to your music, make it easier to memorize the music, help with improvising, etc. But also learn to read the actual notes. This will open up the whole world of written music rather than just falling into the trap of playing by ear.

Watch out for tension in the shoulders, arms, wrist and hands. Check frequently and stop and relax if it is happening. Pain is NEVER a good sign. Check often for proper curve of the fingers, that you are sitting correctly, etc. until these things become a habit. Break your practice session into segments. Look away from the music every 15 minutes or so and focus on something in the future (I wrecked my eyesight my too much intensity on my scores--had to get glasses ) Get up and walk around after 30 minutes. Identify the trouble spots in whatever you are playing. Practice these first. Don't waste time going through the entire piece over and over. If your fingers are stumbling in measure 6 and 7, then focus your work there. Practice smart!

I have a sign in my music studio for my students. This reflects my philosophy of music:

Countless,

unseen

details

are often the only difference between

mediocre

and Magnificent.

Enjoy your musical adventure and keep us posted on your progress

PS. There is a myriad of information on the Internet you might want to look at once the basics are mastered. Pm me if you want at any time, I can refer you many excellent sites and books. What series is your teaching going to use to teach you?

37

PROVE ME WRONG! JW's were the only religion to oppose Hitler

by truthsearcher in

this statement was made to me and i want to refute it with verifiable information on other denominations.

anyone with ideas?.

truthsearcher

Hi guys: thanks for all the help so far! I have done some Internet research and there is conflicting information but here is an interesting article:

The Confessing Church

Pastor Martin Niemoller ( left) was imprisoned in concentration camps during the war. Dietrich Bonhoeffer (right), a renown theologian, was hanged in the Flossenburg Concentration Camp on 9 April 1945. There has been a great deal of debate over church (Catholic & Protestant) responses to National Socialism. For the most part, the ethical prognosis for the Christian communities in Germany is poor. Nazism infiltrated the Protestant churches under the banner of the German Christian (Deutsche Christen) movement. The "German Christians" sprang up in Protestant parishes across Germany. The organization advocated the creation of an "Aryan Paragraph" in church synods that would prevent non-aryans (Jewish converts) from participating, ministering or teaching within the churches. However, there were some church officials who opposed the movement.

Pastor Martin Niemoller, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and others formed the "Pastors Emergency League". The organization would later become known as the Confessing Church. The League sought and end to Nazi manipulation of the churches. Initially, the Confessing Church was concerned with the the policy of exclusion that the Aryan Paragraph advocated. The Confessing Church's leaders believed the exclusion of Jews from the church community was in direct violation of Christian teaching. As evangelical Christians they believed in the concept of spreading the Gospel, a concept the Aryan Paragraph contradicted. Some historians have been critical of the Confessing Church's motivations in opposing Nazism. Many view their evangelicalism as symptomatic of the mentality that helped engineer the rise of Nazism. Such views are short sighted. True, as evangelical Christians they may have sought to convert non Christians, but their opposition to the Nazis was not restricted to issues of conversion.

Members of the Confessing Church helped approximately 2000 Jews escape to freedom. They also assisted political dissidents and fellow Christians persecuted by the regime. Bonhoeffer even liasoned with members of the military resistance, some of whom were involved in the July 20th bombing of the Wolf's Lair. He helped draft memoranda on a future democratic government in the event that the regime was toppled. Bonhoeffer also compiled evidence of SS crimes, and coordinated contacts with foreigners abroad to gain support for a number of resistance groups. Bonhoeffer's actions indicate a level of concern that superseded particular theological assertions. Members of the Confessing Church actively protested against the Nazi regime and its anti-Semitic policies.

Suggested Link
For a more detailed understanding of the Confessing Church and Dietrich Bohnhoeffer's life please
view Victoria Barnett's essay on Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Catholic Resistance
Father Bernhard Litchenberg
died on the way to Dachau

On 20 July 1933 the Catholic Church and Germany signed a Papal Concordat. The agreement was to guarantee the safety of the Catholic Church's institutions in Germany. In return for Nazi guarantees of security, the Catholic Church promised not to intervene in Germany's domestic policies. Despite this fact, a significant amount of the Church's leadership did protest the Nazi regime's programs. Clerics like Archbishop Michael von Faulhaber, Bishop Konrad Graf von Preysing, and Bishop Clemens Graf von Galen protested Nazi policies of abortion, sterilization, and euthanasia. Unfortunately, some of these protesters were much less vocal with regard to the crimes committed against Jews. Some Catholics, like Father Litchenberg, refused to be silent. Father Litchenberg publicly spoke out against Nazi policies. He frequently ended each Mass with prayers for the Jews. Litchenberg was eventually arrested, and served 2 years of penal servitude. He was arrested a second time, but died on his way to Dachau.

Unfortunately, as an institution, the Catholic Church's efforts at assisting victims of the regime (including their own clerics) is minimal at best. Like their Protestant counterparts the Catholic Church had for the most part been silent. This should however, not subtract from the remembrance of those priests, nuns, monks, and lay people who sacrificed their lives to resist oppression.

Other Areas of Religious Protest

Thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses lost their lives in the camps for refusal to submit to the regime. Many other religious sects, such as the Mormons, non-denominational Christians, and others took an active stance against the regime. Likewise, many within the Jewish community protested Nazi policies despite their being its primary targets.