People often confuse mistakes with failures. They are not the same.
AllTimeJeff
JoinedPosts by AllTimeJeff
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30
Danger found on JWD!!!...........
by oompa inyeah i know....so i like "introductions that arouse interests" on my subject lines!
but the danger is at the end of this post, not the beginning.
this is actually a very serious thread for oompa... and not my first, but i apologize in advance for it being the longest i have ever posted.
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AllTimeJeff
Oompa
I haven't commented too much on your ordeals, because I try to stay out of the advice business. But I know that you are going through hell, and I think of you often.
For me, when I first left, I spent all my time on Ronnie's board on Yuku, then came here. Both places were invaluable to me as I left.
Then, I just needed to be away. I am back on these boards more then ever lately, for my own reasons. I don't need these boards personally as much. But I do feel responsible to help in whatever way I feel I can.
I feel you about how much time these boards can suck up though. It's all about finding what works best for us. Hang in there!!
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6
Top Ten Lame Excuses Why The Watchtower Society predictions Never Came True
by Homerovah the Almighty intop ten lame excuses why the watchtower society predictions never came true.
1. c. t. russell measured the great pyramid with his hands, found to be inaccurate.
2. judge rutherford was dyslexic, year 1925 should have read 5291 instead.
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AllTimeJeff
My Top 10 WT Lame Excuses
10. Judge Rutherford's "vision" that caused him to believe the prophets were coming back and thus to build Beth Sarim was really nothing more then him being hung over after an all night bender.
9. 1975 fiasco started after Fred Franz had a fleeting thought about what a naked woman might have looked like, causing confusion.
8. First vision Jehovah gave C T Russell: How to freebase Crack.
7. 1914 was not accurate year after it was determined that Russells tape measure was to small to measure Pyramid.
6. When Rutherford and 7 other associates were jailed in 1918, they determined that C T Russell was really nothing more then the Quaker Oates guy.
5. Chitty and Greenlees studied prophetic tatoos on each others back.
4. N H Knorr too busy making rules about sex to actually have any with wife. (affected ability to think)
3. Thought Jesus was kidding about not trying to figure out the date or the hour.
2. Didn't realize till it was too late that Hebrew isn't read from left to right.
1. They had no idea their followers read this shit anyway.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Purposely Confuse Meanings of Words- to Control
by flipper init's well known that jehovah's witnesses are a mind control cult.
most would agree on that point.
but have you noticed the clever ( allegedly ) way they try to blur meanings of words to control their rank and file members and any prospective incoming members ?.
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AllTimeJeff
Great thread. Something to keep in mind, The Governing Body MUST control all aspects of the conversation.
They will not answer questions that they do not raise. To them, only their questions are relevant. Thus, only their definitions of words are relevant.
Because of their stand against not acknowledging any questions from outside JW sources, they can not only can the answer to their canned questions, but they allow themselves to make up their own vocabulary.
The isolation/insulation automatically creates an environment to do this. Their vocabulary, (which they cynically call "the pure language") is designed only for them.
Only an ex JW can really sniff out what it is and what they try to do. Others can point out that the Governing Body does this, but only ex JW's can interpret.
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24
Local JWs plan on setting up booth at mall and college
by SnakesInTheTower inone of the local elders in my town, a real go-getter when it comes to all things dub, is apparently the new service overseer.
until recently (when i stopped drinking the kool-aid), we were also close friends.
he still calls me a couple of times a month.
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AllTimeJeff
2 congos in my old circuit were in college towns and frequently setup boots at the colleges. As you can guess, they got a fair amount of foot traffic among the lonely kids away from their family.
Insidious. And flipper, you are right, education is all about helping people to think, JW's have the exact opposite of agenda in mind.
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True Spirituality - Can You Attain It?
by Farkel insane people define spiritual an inner way of being, of growing closer to the source or higher power.
it is "fostering a transcendent experience that lies beyond all names and yet the experience longs to be articulated and made concrete in everyday living.
it is easier to describe what spiritual direction does than what spiritual direction is.
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AllTimeJeff
Great post.
Spirituality is always at the forefront of my mind, even if worshiping "god" and joining a church aren't.
I always got a kick at how "spiritual" someone became just because they filled out a pioneer app.
As an elder, I did enjoy helping to delete two regular pioneers who were the heigth of arrogance and self righteousness. Never a nice thing to say about anyone and the movies they watched, or how they did their ministry. All because they were pioneers, they could judge. For Jehovah of course.
We busted them because they thought they were more correct then the elders, and would frequently say so. This would be a rare case where the elders got it right, and we told them both that "spirituality is not a by product of the title you have".
Since I have left, I wonder if they think their deletions were tainted. I hope not, I would do it again. Those two if they ever got back on the theocratic pony would be hell on wheels to deal with.
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Got A Letter From A JW
by JW Walking Away ini kept getting emails from a jw from somewhere, don't even know who she is.
last night i finally emailed this person asking them to stop emailing me because i am not a jw and have no interest in the emails she sends.
she practically sends 2-3 "spriritual" emails a day.
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AllTimeJeff
Absolutely horrid. They are such glazed over cult members, they don't even realize how full of crap they are.
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Need to vent - being hassled by elders!
by wildfell innearly two years ago my husband and i abruptly stopped attending meetings.
we had one or two visits from an elder that i disliked, but that stopped when i told him not to come back.
we were patting ourselves on the back that we had been left alone.
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AllTimeJeff
Just tell them you became depressed after being offended. This lowered your immune system and now you have chronic fatigue syndrome and are allergic to perfumes.
LOL!
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Is baptism voided for those disassociated?
by sacolton insince the jehovah witness baptism is more or less worded like a contract, when someone disassociates does that mean the baptism is considered voided?.
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AllTimeJeff
No. Baptism is not voided.
Disassociation seems to be a poorly understood JW concept, with good reason. This is a level of disfellowshipping that serves the interests of the Governing Body only. They mean to muddy the waters in order to protect themselves from legal consequences in certain judicial cases.
Disfellowshipping means "you were acted upon."
Disassociation means "you acted upon them."
(I prefer the term "resign" because to use their terminology is (imo) to accept the fact that you no longer want to associate with your friends. If that is the case for some, it certainly wasn't the case with me.)
Starting with 1981 and the disfellowshipping of Ray Franz, the GB "tweked" disassociation so that total shunning would take effect. A few years later, specifically because of lawsuits brought against the WTBTS, the Governing Body said that a person who took blood or "violated their neutraility" disassociated themselves by their actions.
Really? Wouldn't fornication cause a similar action? All such "sins" (from the JW point of view) can potentially announce that an individual leaves because of their actions.
What this type of JW legalese allows is for JW's to kick out and shun those who violate a GB law that isn't clearly stated in the bible, yet make it seem that the JW wanted to leave. For example, to fornicate is a sin all over the bible. To work at a military production plant? While offensive to JW's and the GB, it isn't stated in the bible. There are many who want to be JW's and yet work at a military plant. What to do? Lawsuits can be filed if the GB acted upon them. But if they can frame the debate and claim that the person left of their own accord, as demonstrated by working at a military plant, then it is easier to defend in the courts.
I know this wasn't the thrust of your question, sorry for the rant. It just angers me that the GB uses a term like disassociation, which implies that a person resigned, and use it as a disfellowshipping tool.
The only ones who really disassociate are the ones who resign by letter or verbally. Everyone else is kicked out by the cult. Disfellowshipped, even if they don't call it that.
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The implications of 'prophecy'
by Simon instories such as lord of the rings and narnia always have some prophecy which usually involves some decendent of whoever becoming king and then everything being ok, yada yada yada.
they never explain how it works ... because of course it cannot be explained - there is just some 'magic' that makes things work out.. of course the bible is the ultimate story jam packed full of prophecies.
so, for the people who believe it, what are the implications?.
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AllTimeJeff
Narkissos said
However that doesn't change my general interest for the apology or criticism of Watchtower doctrine per se, which has been low for a very long time. I have made a number of (generally brief) posts on such topics when I felt it could help, but I am much more interested in reflection on religious experience and phenomena than discussing the arguments for and against specific sectarian doctrines (JW or other).
I have been following this discussion, it is excellent. I have had nothing to add in the way of factual information, other then to reflect on the initial question Simon put out there and to reflect on my own (very limited) understanding of this subject as a JW.
As a practical matter, looking beyond the scholarship and how JW's arrive at their "clever" teaching (that YHWH has the power to foreknow, but chooses not to), it's design and purpose is one of control from the JW point of view. The experience, what this dogma actually engenders in the way of behavior and thought amongst those who believe it is fascinating and illuminating.
It's a zero/sum game for JW's, designed to get believers to not give up preaching or other JW activities. If JW's believe that YHWH already knows in advance what will happen, and who will respond to the preaching that JW's do, it makes their preaching work moot and a waste of time. It also paints a very poor image of the god of JW's.
If a JW is depressed, or feels unworthy, they might very well conclude that YHWH has already made up his mind about them, why fight to stay a JW if you are foreordained for destruction?
As many have stated, there is a great amount of logical inconsistencies to believing this. For those who believe in god, and in prophecy, it is not easily answered how a god of love can state that certain people will be destroyed and certain events will happen if god doesn't foreordain such to happen! Will god make himself a liar if he has the power to back up his prophecies?
JW's for one teach that it suits god's purpose not to look into the future. For sure, it suits the purpose of the Governing Body to teach that YHWH doesn't. But that doesn't make the teaching accurate or sound.
Beyond that, I have really enjoyed the exegesis. I think that the effect of believing the JW version of prophecy and foreordination is important, and to hold JW "scholarship" (such as it is) to the fire demonstrates once again the cynical attempt of the Governing Body to use all of the bible to their own ends.