Posts by AllTimeJeff

"may stumble other weak ones" = In fact, this is bullsh*t that means 'the GB is offended by it, and we will hide behind new ones so we don't have to deal with it.'

84

DF'd and struggling....LONG POST........my story.

by confuzzled777 in

how do i make a long story short?

i am fully aware that if anyone in my area were to read this that they will know who i am.

i was disfellowshipped on january 28th 2010 after an "interview" about an evening of bowling with friends and family back in november 2009. i was among 4 who were disfellowshipped and 6 who were publicly reproved.

AllTimeJeff

Sometimes, we learn the truth about evil groups when they mistreat us first.

That isn't to say that the people you know are evil. Far from it. I know of very few JW's who are evil. (pedophiles and some leaders are who I group into that). Most are duped.

You have been mistreated because the leadership demands strict control, and teaches the elders who disfellowshipped you to do their controlling for them. As a former elder, I can say that most elders, even if they were on their high horse, felt bad for what they did to you.

Is that a reason to go back? May I encourage you to learn and ask questions about your faith. I did. As a Gilead grad who himself went through some pretty serious crap, I can only say that to have the freedom to research Jehovah's Witnesses on your own the way we as Jehovah's Witnesses encourage people of other religions to do the same is enlightening and freeing.

Wishing you the best. Know that you don't have to go back, or do anything. Only be honest with yourself first, and what you find out about JW's.

12

Lies and Damn Lies

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

the greatest mistake and the greatest harm i ever did to myself as a jehovah's witness is lying to myself.

about everyone else secondly.. i believe in very few constants in life.

i think we all are on journey's and it takes a lot to get to where we are going.

AllTimeJeff

The greatest mistake and the greatest harm I ever did to myself as a Jehovah's Witness is lying to myself. About myself first. About everyone else secondly.

I believe in very few constants in life. I think we all are on journey's and it takes a lot to get to where we are going. But one thing life, esp life as a JW taught me, is that by and large, we, you and I, are very willing to lie to ourselves when it feels good to do so.

That isn't meant to be accusatory or to denigrate anyone. I can only speak of my own experience and see how it jives with with others to know this is true.

Truthfully, I never wanted a paradise earth where I could frolic in the fields with Lions and Elephants. For one thing, I was planning on moving to New Jersey after Armageddon. (joke their folks, laugh) What appealed to me about being a JW wasn't the future paradise. It was what I got out of being a JW now.

While allowing for the fact that JW teachings do point many broken people with problems to a time when their problems will end, the carrot on the stick that the Governing Body uses is what they term the present "spiritual paradise". This bullshit paradise is supposedly complete with brothers and sisters who care, elders to shepherd, while everyone rejoices that "we alone have the truth."

Of course, the dark side of this is that JW's teach, and I taught, that everyone else was going to be destroyed by that ultra loving god Jehovah.

Why? Why did I do it? I truthfully never did deep down believe it. What I got out of it was being a teenage ministerial servant and pioneer who wanted to be an over achiever, and happened to be a born in JW, finding myself in a religious cult that encouraged me to use my intelligence, talents, and energies for them.

And I was young, and my vanities were over fed. An easy recipe for lying to myself began. I could become an elder, be a leader, and having learned this from the pros, hide my own agenda behind Watchtower catch phrases of "having spiritual goals" and "reaching out for further privileges of service."

From my teens I saw the rot and hypocrisy. But I was too caught up in lying to myself. It caused me to pursue a goal I genuinely had no interest in, being a missionary, and to marry someone whom I had no business marrying, though I loved her with all my heart. All because I simply wanted to achieve, to do something with my life. With no guidance, JW's used that until I finally said "enough!"

These days, I have no problem with admitting where I am at. If I want something bad for me, maybe I will do it, eat it, and maybe I won't, but I won't sit there and try to justify it. While I don't say everything that comes into my mind, with my friends, I am pretty much a "what you see is what you get" person.

I strongly believe that while you don't have to tip your hand to everyone you meet, (esp at work) you can't afford not to be honest with yourself. It's miserable.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to achieve in your life. There is nothing wrong with changing. Unhappy relationships and marriages can either be saved or ended by honesty. Unfortunately, most relationships with that level of intimacy rarely gets the honesty it needs to fertilize the relationship.

It is, in my opinion, the ultimate challenge of exiting JW's to be honest with the person in the mirror. To really know, then admit, who they are. To know, not just your weak points, but your strong ones. To know who you really are, and then to strike out from that place is the ultimate peace that in the end, we all seek.

But until we stop pretending to be who we are not, until we stop justifying our weaknesses and bad points, until we come to a place where we can accept ourselves for who we are and being a work in progress, our development as people, post JW, will be slower then it needs to be.

There are many lessons to be learned. Many mistakes have been made, and will be made. But one mistake that can stop is to no longer lie to the person staring back at us in the mirror.

131

Can we trust this website? (About the subject in which Jehovah's Witnesses were a NGO)

by possible-san in

can we trust this website?.

watchtower as a united nations ngo - critical look at the conspiracy theory.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/.

AllTimeJeff

Well hell, it was in the newspaper, letters came from the UN confirming it, so this guy is really swimming in the River Denial.

83

If you felt/feel that you had/have good, close "friends" in the org, how did/does it feel to just give them up?

by Crisis of Conscience in

jw
friends

this is my biggest dilema.

although mentally i really feel i could walk away from the org right now, i still have genuine love for the people i have come to know over the years.

i love people!.

AllTimeJeff

People are fragile, moldable, and easily influenced. Thats how I view it.

I guess I was never one to hold a lot of grudges against my fellow compatriots. How could I? I shot up the JW corporate ladder with a missle on my back. I didn't care for a while.

But I was also duped into believing that how I felt towards "spiritually weak" ones, disfellowshipped, etc, was proper. When you are trained to believe that your very thoughts are monitored by Jehovah, then you think in a way that isn't healthy.

I planned my escape for a while. One thing I considered was, how would I treat my friends? All of them. Would I leave with a scathing email? Letters mailed with all that I knew and learned?

I decided against intervening in their journey at all. Were it not for the odd circumstances that forced me to acknowledge I was in a cult, I can easily see where I might still be in. I can't lie. If I didn't see the weirdest of the weird, I would have continued to lie to myself, just like the cult trained me to do.

So how can I get mad at those who are continuously being trained to lie to themselves like me? I already knew the built in mechanisms that the GB teaches. They know they are f*cked in the head. Thats why they preach about apostasy so much. I heard about apostates all my life as a JW, and the first apostate I ever met was me!

In the end, I chose not to hold my shunning against anyone. Were I to try and insert myself in a life I was no longer welcome in, I would be tiring out myself and them. I would be taking responsibility for their diseased thinking. I could only fix me.

I miss my friends and I love them. That is why I let them go. I forgive them. My life goes on.

10

Do Not Interpretations Belong To.....

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

one of the biggest things that the governing body hangs their hat on is a simple concept.

"we, the gb, are the only ones authorized to interpret the bible, what it means, what to enforce, and what not to enforce.".

joseph in the book of genesis told the pharaoh after a perplexing dream "do not interpretations belong to god?".

AllTimeJeff

One of the biggest things that the Governing Body hangs their hat on is a simple concept. "We, the GB, are the only ones authorized to interpret the bible, what it means, what to enforce, and what not to enforce."

Joseph in the book of Genesis told the Pharaoh after a perplexing dream "Do not interpretations belong to god?"

And therein lies the choice, esp for those considering leaving JW's, or who have left and are trying to keep their heads straight. Whose job is it to interpret.... whatever?

It's not just Jehovah's Witnesses on this one. I have seen bumper stickers on cars that says "Real Catholics Don't Support Abortion." I guess that's true, if you want to ignore the millions of Catholics who actually do support a womens right to choose. I know Catholics who absolutely support a womans right to choose. And use birth control.

With groups, it's all or nothing. How much of the responsibility to decide on what to believe in are you willing to farm out to a group in order to fit in?

One of the reasons I think that internet forums involving former JW's can get so heated is simply that, for better or worse, most former JW's have accepted their responsibility to interpret things for themselves.

The concept is foreign to practicing JW's, and I have a sneaky suspicion that it is the abdication of the responsibility to think for themselves, to interpret for themselves, that keeps most JW's in. I am not one who thinks that most JW's think their little club is perfect. I do believe, esp in western countries, that JW's are very aware that something is at least a little off. They hear the whispers in their heart...

"Do not interpretations belong to god?" That's the other whisper. Except that the GB speaks for god. Or so they claim. And so you listen. It's not up to you to question, or even (gasp) to disagree with the GB. Maybe for whatever reason, you do think that Jehovah is the true god. But you want to worship him in your own way. Maybe you think blood transfusions are alright.

Can you say those things? No. Think them? Sure, but you will go through the very lonely, and mentally unhealthy process, of never sharing what you really think with anyone.

Even in little things that really don't matter, a JW must be careful. If it's sex, it can't be oral. Thats perverted. Why? That's their interpretation of perverted. If it's a TV show, watch what you want. Unless an elder makes a big deal about it. Because it could be considered "worldly". Anything that is interpreted "worldly" by the local elders, on up to the GB, is all it takes to make an activity, anything really, via an interpretation by an elder, or esp, in a Watchtower, to make something forbidden, or worthwhile.

Exiting JW's seem to struggle at first with the concept that they are ever allowed to interpret anything. It used to be as a JW, if someone was an idiot, but was a pioneer, or an elder, they could get away with acting like a jerk, because they were spiritually minded. Of course, if they were jerks and were inactive or irregular, they were bad association. (Later on, Ihave considered the possibility that these jerks were also fading. But I digress.....)

Now, if someone acts like a jerk, you can safely assume that its probably because they are. No need to consult with a Watchtower, or an elder, to make up your mind.

Do you want to agree with Catholics? Agnostics? Atheists? Republicans? Democrats? Tea Party members? It's up to you.

Just remember that interpretations belong to you, and you alone. It always has been that way. The more willing you are to accept that and run, the more potential you unleash, and the more powerful you will become.

66

Highlights of Annual Meeting 2010

by elderelite in

for those who are interested, the following changes were announced yesterday at the agm.

1) mts school has been done away with.

a) in its place two new schools have been formed.

AllTimeJeff

Amazing how quickly MTS disappeared once Teddy died....

35

Things That Matter and Things That Don't

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

being a jehovah's witness at any time and at any level is a major head f*ck.

the reason is that it obscures what is important and causes you to focus on what doesn't matter.. i've moved on from my jw experience.

it's a shame that i found myself a born in, taught to focus on things that don't matter.

AllTimeJeff

I am fascinated by how my views of JW's have changed through the years, and their affects on me. That is what motivated me to write this.

There is no doubt that when anyone first leaves, its going to be an adjustment. In addition, there is a lot of residual problems associated with living and thinking as a JW, and it causes many problems at work, in relationships, and how one views themselves.

What matters when you first leave is simply to leave, and get your head right. That isn't an automatic guarantee. The GB likes to seize on as examples those who have problems if they are disfellowshipped or leave on their own, never admitting that they caused the problems in the first place.

There is no substitute for what time will teach you, but hopefully, some perspective while you go through these adjustments can help a ton.

35

Things That Matter and Things That Don't

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

being a jehovah's witness at any time and at any level is a major head f*ck.

the reason is that it obscures what is important and causes you to focus on what doesn't matter.. i've moved on from my jw experience.

it's a shame that i found myself a born in, taught to focus on things that don't matter.

AllTimeJeff

Because these topics are frequently and passionately debated on this board and others, here are some more thoughts.

MATTERS:
That you answer the god question and what being spiritual means to you.

DOESN'T MATTER:
That other people find other paths. I certainly don't agree with most organized religion as to how it herds people into group think. That is dangerous to me. At the same time, the traditional church and feeling close to a "higher power" has real and tangible benefits. It isn't an easy thing to figure out, and agreement will never come. It also doesn't matter if some self righteous people insist they have it right, they know best, or that their religion is the one. We've been down that road before. It's good enough to know that there are tons of people who feel they are right and right with god, and that you aren't. Don't sweat it. They aren't changing you, and you aren't changing them.

MATTERS:
That you stay abreast of current events, political or otherwise, and contribute to your community. Or if you decide you shouldn't, thats ok too.

DOESN'T MATTER:
That people disagree. Listen, we live in a democracy. The strength and weakness is the same. We can be ourselves and have our own thoughts and vote. That means that "unity" or agreement is hard to come by. If you disagree with political views, the only thing I can say is, don't be a jerk about it. Conservatives, liberals, moderates and apathetics can agree to disagree. Or at least you can.

Don't argue just for the rush it gives you. Arguing with people over the internet about JW's, politics, and religion can be beneficial. But it shouldn't be your only hobby.