i attended one day of a two day assembly and did ok until the very last talk.
the brother was from bethal and well jw's pay closer attention to their talks, cause that is when some new info is given,,,right.
well anyways i lost focus and began to daydream, cause it became one of those talks that just talks about wasting time.
Don't worry, in a year, another WT will come out saying that the flock misconstrued the article, and it will all be the flocks fault. At that time, married folk will be able to fondel their partner, because the next rule will be "KEEP YOUR EYES CLOSED DAMMIT AND YOU WON'T SEE ANYTHING!!!"
(I understand that this point has been made previously....)
please allow me a small opinion, sparked by some drum bangers who are determined to expose and "bring down" the wtbts.
one way that this is done is by attaching a persons religion to a crime report.. for example, rapists who are jw's are frequently brought up here.
child molesters and pedophiles.
I bow to you on your point Outlaw. Again, my point is sensationalizing these stories does happen, and it appears that there is an ax to grind.
As usual, I could have said that better.... lol. Outlaw, btw, I am way ahead of you, although this weekend, I am on a Sam Adams quest. The seasonal right (write, rite) now is Noble Pils. I haven't had a Canadian beer in a couple of weeks, I feel bad...
if fractions of blood are now allowed,.
by the same reasoning what fractions of fornication can i have?.
LMFAO!!!!
That's priceless. Lets give one to Tiger Woods...
i'm getting coffee at the 7-11 about 8:30 this morning , in the parking lot i see this guy i know and his wife talking to some jw's in the parking lot.
i go over and say hi joe and wife, i play stupid and ask do you go to church with these people.
they say no they are preaching jesus to us.
Hey judge, I disagreed with an earlier post of yours, but this was pretty good! Thats the kind of thing that needs to happen, one JW at a time. Who knows, maybe those JW's will "think" too. It hurts when the gears are forcibly moved.
please allow me a small opinion, sparked by some drum bangers who are determined to expose and "bring down" the wtbts.
one way that this is done is by attaching a persons religion to a crime report.. for example, rapists who are jw's are frequently brought up here.
child molesters and pedophiles.
Watson, you spelled "write" correctly. Well done!
a couple of young people about 20years old,,,,were involved with each....they went too far with the being alone situation....not sure if they reported themselves or some one else did...reguardless.....i guess the elders asked both of them extremely embarrassing questions and very very personal ones...like what kind of underwear she wore,,,,,did she have an orgasm.....etc etc..... i do not understand why this is done?????
they went too far,,,acknowledged it,,,,met with the elders...why the deep personal questions??
they already had all the information they needed...... i should know these things,,,being in the borg for 30 years...but i don't,,,i really do not understand why????
Blues brother is right. Yet, I encountered so many elders who did this very thing. According to procedure, elders only need to establish porneia. Whether a person orgasmed or not has never been a criteria, although elders continue to justify the importance of that question. My take? They are pervs.....
a philosophical ending.. in the end, real life doesn't have happy endings for the happy.
it's even better, because its real.
you are real.
Interesting how this thread has evolved, but I think the discussion of our movies/stories not being over has an over-arching lesson.
Not everyone will get the 7 Habits concepts. We are all different. What it provides to me and others is a framework from which to rebuild and refocus after leaving JW's.
I see and speak often of the void thats left, esp for those who were kicked out only to learn of the lies that JW's teach. That is the biggest thing that breaks my heart. I don't think it matters ultimately if you did it Covey's way, or Dale Carnagies way, whatever.
One of the things that stuck with me that Covey wrote about is having a purpose for our lives. After we leave JW's that is so important to NOT ignore. I realize that some will always try to do what they were never allowed to do, whether that be drugs, sex, alcohol, etc. It isn't my place to judge, except to say that "sowing your oates" can lead to some unalterable consequences, but, maybe thats the road your story will take you.
To fill that void, to be "spiritual" even if that means not being religious or having a religion, is important.
The need to take care of yourself, something both JW's and former JW's neglect at times, is encapsulated in Habit 7.
Again, I can endorse this book as a healthy way to get started if you are leaving. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if someone wants to really get into it or not, I think its good to know that there are many healthy mental and emotional constructs to implement, if we only avail ourselves of them.
Reading. Gotta love it!
thousands of jehovah's witnesses, and the number could be as high as 100,000, are being disfellowshipped each year in the watchtower org.
their religious policy on disfellowshipping is not biblical, and the punishment is cruel and inhumane.
the punishment of being shunned has many consequences.
Koolaid-man, you are right, this thread sent me to your site, so I could give an up to date opinion of it.
I am sure you are aware that hits on an internet site, while important, is not the key metric. New and unique visitors to your site is the statistic that you need to pay attention to. If you see that going well, more power to you.
There is a lot of factual and interesting items you have there. The music, and some of the opinions you have expressed on that site, presented as they are, still seem over the top to me.
Having said that, I know that you are passionate about this, and I do wish you the best. I can't honestly say that I agree with your approach, but if you get a few who gravitate to that sort of approach, then that is a win.
I still believe that you need to lose the music and present some of the items more reasonably. But, to each their own. Peace!
please allow me a small opinion, sparked by some drum bangers who are determined to expose and "bring down" the wtbts.
one way that this is done is by attaching a persons religion to a crime report.. for example, rapists who are jw's are frequently brought up here.
child molesters and pedophiles.
For this thread, I am going to respond Flipper style, because well, y'all have already got me thinking again....
JAMIEBOWERS: Great point, and I think it does serve a purpose. If I might be allowed to amend the spirit of what I meant by that, it is simply to not sensationalize a story beyond what it is. That does happen every now and again. To a non JW, I know they don't' understand, and there is really nothing to be done about it. For JW's who stumble upon here, I guess it just depends on how honest they can be with themselves if they are willing to click on a link to a news article and see for themselves how the occupants of their spiritual paradise tend to act.
SCOTTIEBEAR77, that is a fair point you make. I have observed the breaking of laws when it is convenient for the local elders on more then one occasion. In each case, what is good for the organization trumps secular law.
YESIDID AND MICKEY MOUSE, I type this on a netbook computer, and as a result, the spellcheck function is something I occasionally screw up on. I find myself editing many posts after I post them. This is my JWN computer for better or for worse right now..... But I don't mind per se....
WOBBLE: Thanks for your words. I certainly don't want to prevent anyone from posting anything, but as an opinion piece, I did want to express that these things put out there in a reasonable manner would tend to work better, imo. It has to be admitted that most JW's are decent folks who are being exploited and are very misled. Having the belief and conviction that they do probably feeds undesirable personality traits for some. I know it did with me. So to me, being reasonable is important when these news stories come up. Of course, the pedophile issue should always be given the widest publicity, as it should with the Catholic Church, LDS, and other religions.
BLONDIE: The exposure of any crime that illustrates why JW's aren't what they claim to be has value. No doubt!
WTWIZARD, the way the GB has shamefully hidden and covered up what should be exposed was a major reason why I left. If there was any sliver of hope that things could change, I could see myself back then talking me into staying. But I knew things weren't going to change, I had seen elders leave/resign over pedophile issues and how horribly they were handled, how the victims families were treated, and I wanted no further part in that.
Thanks for the opinions expressed! (Mickey Mouse, I think the spelling is correct on this one.... )
every now and then i think how nice it would be if the board could go back to the way it was in some earlier time of its existence.
when i was in university one of the main focuses of the counseling program i was in was group development and how it changes over time.
jwn is like any group.
Hi Lee, great thread. Thank you in particular for the 4th stage, and putting into words how I see the board now. In fact, that is where I am at.
Having gone to Gilead with my eyes already open somewhat, and my mind open, I got to meet the GB, got the "special" training, and I knew it was crap. I didn't need the function of the early days. What I personally get out of JWN is twofold.
First of all, the contributions of early posters like Farkel (he must be really really old! ) Alan F, Randy Watters with freeminds, and others, was to give me a touchstone to confirm what I saw, so that I wasn't alone. I have to mention Crisis of Conscience too. Without those things, the act of both physically AND mentally leaving would have been much harder.
But I find myself with less and less to expose as a result. Everyone on this board pretty much knows about the scandals and the hypocrisies. There are many ex elders, at least two former missionaries that I know of (Lance and myself) Barbara Anderson posts here. It has caused me in the last several months to rethink my reasons for even being here. Because I don't have anything new to add. And, now over 3 years removed, and with the GB's proven history of changing dogma and procedure, I am no longer an "up to date" apostate. (not complaining about that one bit)
I left, and while damaged by the GB dogma, I have done ok with myself. I have got some therapy, I have made better decisions, and I credit the ex JW community on the internet, both here and on Ronnie's board for that.
The "fluff" that Lee mentions is something I have long seen here. In my case, the political threads draw me, and as I re read my own words, I can see that I was putting out a current opinion, and working things out in my head. That is of great value. And it goes without saying that as JW's, we never had that opportunity, seeing that our personal opinions were squelched to such a large degree. I still come here to work out issues on topics involving politics and religion that are important to me.
The other reason I keep writing is that I feel a responsibility to do something with what I saw for those who are willing to look. Unlike other posters who are sincere and who I have legitimate disagreements with as to their "apostate" approach, I am a firm believer that the ones who leave do so of their own accord, whether they are kicked via disfellowshipping, or have doubts and secretly lurk and try to make up their minds as to what to do, to leave, to fade, etc. In short, they start to take responsibility for themselves, and only they can do that. They need resources on the internet. They need people who have been through a variety of experiences to bounce things off of, to read up, to get the gears in their head going again. In short, they need people who used to be JW's around because we understand. Thinking is hard when you haven't done it in a while....
This board is very important, precisely because it is a huge mix of personalities and opinions, made up of people who have primarily moved on from JW's. In short, this board represents the biggest lie of all that the GB teaches, that you can't be happy and functioning without being a JW. That unity means agreement, not disagreement. That being your own person is better then standing with the "worldwide association" of brothers and sisters indoctrinated cult members.
Thanks for reading one former JW's opinion as to the value of JWN. And Lee, for what this is worth, I agree with you 100%. I couldn't be a mod, at least right now in my life, but I thank you for assuming that sometimes time consuming role. (and all the other mods, Simon, Angharad,. Thanks.)
