Posts by bud2114

14

June 15 Study WT - Faithful Steward and its GB

by bud2114 in

from what i can tell, there was some discussion out here on this article about a month ago, but at that time few folks had their copy to look at (we just received it last week at our hall).

now that most jw's have their copy, there has been a lot of discussion about it - at least here, that is.

as was mentioned already, this is definitely a follow up to the 5/1/07 qfr "when does the callling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?

bud2114

G-Bus, there are certainly alot of screwball JW's - I know I have met some of the strangest for sure. The entire org. is made up mainly of the most gullable types, many with serious social disorders who would have no friends or otherwise any aim in life if it were not for belonging to what they believe is the only "true" religion.

On the other hand, I know plenty of highly social and highly intelligent JW's that have just plain been duped by the skillfully crafted BS coming out of Brooklyn. Judging by the many insightful comments on this board from former or current JW's on the way out, I think this 2nd group is well represented here. Apparently something at sometime caused them to pause and say, "Can this be right?"

Hopefully, WT articles like this will cause others who are also paying attention, just a little, to do the same. Sure, certain JW's will never come around no matter how ridiculous the nonsense spewing forth from Brooklyn becomes, but if the org. loses it's best and brightest (which is happening enmasse), perhaps this will hasten the end of the whole thing and we can all get on with our lives.

14

June 15 Study WT - Faithful Steward and its GB

by bud2114 in

from what i can tell, there was some discussion out here on this article about a month ago, but at that time few folks had their copy to look at (we just received it last week at our hall).

now that most jw's have their copy, there has been a lot of discussion about it - at least here, that is.

as was mentioned already, this is definitely a follow up to the 5/1/07 qfr "when does the callling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?

bud2114

The veil is slowly-but-surely being lifted upon the whole ridiculous charade with which this modern-day organization controls it's members.

If read in context, any person can see that both Matthew's account of the "faithful and discreet slave" and Luke's "faithful steward" are nothing more than simple illustrations or parables meant to indicate an individual's standing before God based on their respective actions.

No logical, thinking person would arrive at the convoluted conclusion that these passages are part of some complicated prophecy related to some exclusive class of heavenly-bound people, that were first chosen beginning in 33 C.E.; that were part of group that for decades was thought to be completed in the 1930's, but now suddenly starts accepting new members; and finally a group that has somehow allowed themselves to become upstaged by a self-appointed 9-member panel (GB) who's selection process is one of the great secrets of all time.

With articles like this, hopefully, the confusion over the increasingly tangled mess will cause even the most devout JW's to just READ THEIR BIBLE and think - could this be right?

14

June 15 Study WT - Faithful Steward and its GB

by bud2114 in

from what i can tell, there was some discussion out here on this article about a month ago, but at that time few folks had their copy to look at (we just received it last week at our hall).

now that most jw's have their copy, there has been a lot of discussion about it - at least here, that is.

as was mentioned already, this is definitely a follow up to the 5/1/07 qfr "when does the callling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?

bud2114

From what I can tell, there was some discussion out here on this article about a month ago, but at that time few folks had their copy to look at (we just received it last week at our hall). Now that most JW's have their copy, there has been a lot of discussion about it - at least here, that is.

As was mentioned already, this is definitely a follow up to the 5/1/07 QFR "When does the callling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease?" In fact, the last part of this new article restates word-for-word certain points made in the QFR. However, the motivation behind this article seems to be totally different than it was for the QFR. While the QFR was more in response to questions over the recent and rapid increasing number of memorial partakers - something even the most clueless JW was starting to notice, this new article seems to be in response to a rising tide of disgruntled annointed ones who are openly questioning the authority of the current 9-member GB acting as a "representative" of the entire slave class.

True, since the switch was made to the new WT format, every 3rd or 4th article seems to be a continual reinforcement of the role of the "slave class" as God's only channel and the need to follow their lead no matter what, but this article has a different tone to me and is directed more toward the anointed - especially the new partakers.

Of course, this idea of pushing the GB to the fore, and down-playing the role of the rest of the anointed has been a work in progress ever since the coup in 1976 when Knorr and Franz lost their year-long battle with certain board members over control of the organization and the 6-committee thing was set up. Prior to this a GB loosely existed, but these GB members were merely corporate officers, and board members with no real authority over what the Society President decided. Although Franz vehemently argued against this idea by correctly pointing out that there is no scriptural basis for such, and no real "governing body" existed in the 1st century, his credibility was shot after the 1975 debacle. If I recall, there were 14 GB members at the time and the number soon after increased to 18 and has since fluctuated up and down, with the current number at 9.

The term "faithful and discreet slave," which in this organization technically always meant the "GB," is just now (after 33 years) being explained correctly in print.

Interestingly, the WT writer(s) must think JW's wont verify anything and will go along with whatever is written no matter how asinine the statements are. For example, when discussing Paul and Barnabas' visit to Jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue that had recently come up in Paul's home cong. in Antioch (Syria), par 9 makes this ridiculous statement: "Their appointment [as Apostle's] was confirmed by the governing body in Jerusalem. (Gal. 2:7-10) Shortly after that, Paul had a part in dispensing spiritual food."

What? I thought Paul was appointed by Jesus personally on the road to Damascus - why would he need confirmation by some supposed Governing Body in Jerusalem? And did not Paul's previous 17 years of ministering as an "Apostle to the nations" constitute dispensing spiritual food? According to his letter to the Galations where he relates his early ministry work, Paul first ventured to Jerusalem 3 years after his calling, and "saw no one but Cephas (Peter)" during his 15 day visit (this, in itself, is quite odd that the GB - if it existed, did not care to meet with Paul). Then, 14 years later, Paul again went to Jerusalem after having a "revelation" and for the first time met with the "apostles and older men" to set them straight about the circumcision issue. It is absolutely ludicrous to say that at this visit Paul's appointment as an Apostle was confirmed by the Governing Body, and that shortly afterward he had a part in dispensing spiritual food.

The article is full of this unsubstantiated drivel. I don't think the "anointed" in general are buying it anymore. Maybe other JW's are beginning to see through this crap too. Let's hope that the continual need of having to address this GB issue is a good sign and soon this house of cards will fall for good.

20

First century governing body?

by lostsheep82 in

my anointed step dad always mentions about how the first century christians had a governing body also.

where in the bible does it actually say that?

to me governing body is just a dictatorship of men who think they are right and can control, no different than the governments....governing body set rules, and ultimately decide your future as far as i'm concerned.

bud2114

It is a lie to say that a GB existed in the 1st century and was directed by Holy Spirit to make decisions and oversee the goings on of the various congregations that existed then. The scriptures show that the older men in Jerusalem met a single time with Paul and Barnabas over an issue brought up in the far away Antioch congregation by two rogue Jewish brothers who visited and insisted that all Christians must keep the Jewish circumcision tradition (see Acts chapt. 15 and Gal. chapt. 2).

Interestingly, Paul's account of this meeting (Gal. 2) shows that it was by revelation that he went there apparently to correct these older men on this issue - not the other way around. The meeting ended and an apology letter was drafted and sent with two representatives to accompany Paul and Barnabas back to the Antioch congregation. Other than this letter written specifically for the Antioch congregation (also shared with congs. in Syria and Cilicia), there is not even a hint anywhere in the scriptures that a GB existed or had anything to do with what Paul or Timothy, or Philip or many other individuals were doing as representatives of Jesus.

Galations 1 shows that it was 3 years after being appointed by Jesus himself that Paul finally ventured to Jerusalem and during his 2 week stay with Cephas he saw "... no one else of the apostles, only James the brother of the Lord." What? Are you kidding me? You mean that the spirit directed Governing Body of older men who existed then and were in control of everything didn't want a full report?

Galations 2 shows that 14 years later Paul again went to Jerusalem with Barnabas (and the uncircumcised Titus) as a result of a Revelation to set the older men straight on the circumcision issue that the "...false brothers brought in quietly, who had sneaked in to spy upon our freedom..." had brought up in Paul's home congregation in Antioch. Again, your telling me that Paul operated for 14 years independent of the the spirit directed Governing Body of older men who existed then and were in control of everything? And he was allowed to carry on and was not disfellowshipped for apostasy? Wonder what would happen if a sincere brother like Paul went before the modern day GB and offered correction to them?

There is no sciptural basis for how the GB operates today and it is a lie for them to state that there is.

35

Latest tract campaign a complete bust in our area - yours?

by bud2114 in

jw
friends

so much for worldwide coverage of the latest tract campaign that ended on nov 16.

("would you like to know the truth?

") our service overseer announced last night on the local needs part that our cong.

bud2114

So much for worldwide coverage of the latest tract campaign that ended on Nov 16. ("Would you like to know the truth?") Our service overseer announced last night on the local needs part that our cong. covered only 40% of our cong. territory which, by the way, is not that large. We have 121 pubs and 3 reg. pioneers. There was absolutely no excitement shown on this campaign by our group at all. Even worse, our C.O. visit was two weeks ago and he revealed that our avg. publisher hours since his last visit was 5.9 and our Theocratic Ministry School and Service Meeting attendance was at 81%. You can just guess how the elders meeting during his visit went.

Wondering if everyone else's congregation activity is as lethargic as ours. I keep reading the stats in the KM and our cong. is not even close to the national avg. The December 08 KM, for example, shows a new peak of pubs for the US for the Aug 08 service month. Can this be right? I just don't see it. I know a lot of the reporting by the friends is suspect, but something tells me the books are cooked when it comes to the final national numbers. I know personally I wouldn't put anything past this organization. From my prospective, here in central North Carolina USA, even the most ardent JW's are becoming increasingly listless. With the new meeting schedule in 09 I suspect an even greater slowdown as more and more become involved in secular activities.

19

#4 Talk - Timothy why beneficial

by still_in74 in

hey - does anyone have this talk written already?.

of course that would be us suckers still in.

i have to give it tonight and i havent written it yet.. cmon,,, help a brother out!!!!

bud2114

I also have the unfortunate "privilege" of being given this assignment too but on Wednesday night. I was hoping there was some discussion out here about this school part and what do you know! If the GB only knew about this wonderful interchange of ideas between us 'postates!

As a former elder who voluntarily resigned due to hypocrisy and power struggles within the local body, I have successfully faded enough over the past year or so to be relieved of all other assignments (cong. prayer, cong. reading, etc.) but for the wife's sake I still endure these dreadful school assignments. I have been having fun with these parts, though. I find that with a little thought you can subtly sneak in some good stuff that calls into question the JW view of things.

For example, I plan to point out the glaring absence of any direction from the 1st century GB over congregation matters in Paul's two letters to Timothy. The 'All Scripture' book, page 234 par. 5 states, "Paul wrote this first letter to Timothy to set out clearly certain organizational procedures in the congregation." Paul's 1st letter goes on to outline the qualifications of overseers and ministerial servants (1 Tim. 3:1-13). Where did Paul come up with this stuff? Where was the GB direction over Paul? I mean can we imagine a CO or DO unilaterily making policy like this irrespective of the GB today? Certainly not! His head would roll faster than Louis the XVI's. And yet Paul was not considered apostate or discredited by the first century Christian's - hmmmm.

I also can't resist raising the point about Paul's point that there is "... one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all...(1 Tim. 2:5,6). So, if a particular group of men try and set themselves up as a "mediator" between Chist and other humans - saying that no salvation can be had except through them, we can know that their doing so is not scriptural. Hopefully, most in the audience will connect the dots here.

There is a lot more you can do with this material if you think about it and are subtle. If the points made are scriptural what can anyone say to you?

22

Council on new BS arrangement - get your barf bucket ready

by DoomVoyager in

jw
friends

yesterday (sunday) at the end of the public talk, the speaker took a moment to share with us something he said that he gleaned during the 2008 annual meeting.

(hopefully someone hasn't brought this up already).. it was concerning the new bookstudy arrangements.

i will do my best to quote from memory what he said:.

bud2114

I have heard a few hardcore devotees claim they will "religiously" step up the personal and family study thing on this extra night (we'll see if this lasts), but most are looking forward to pursuing some secular things that were impossible under the old schedule. While not announcing it too loud, I have heard the friends discussing joining a softball or golf evening league, or taking some evening classes, even allowing their kids to join in some extra- curricular school activities. It remains to be seen how it will all work out, but one less meeting time is bound to foster the "out of sight, out of mind" mentality toward the "truth" in most of the friends.

My feeling is that the GB didn't want to make this change, but was forced to lighten the load - not on the friends in general (they could care less on how much of a load most are carrying or how high the price of gas is) but this was to lighten the load on those serving. Just like the shortened public talk lightened things on those giving them, soon there will be no instruction talk, no speech quality, and depending on the size of the elder body, an elder may only have to conduct the congregation bible study once every two months. Finally, the service meeting has been shortened slightly so this will help too. Since hardly anyone new was stepping forward to serve and those serving were becoming increasingly disgruntled at their taxing schedule, the GB was forced to make changes to accomodate.

5

How to keep Jehovah's Witnesses from knocking

by bud2114 in

jw
friends

bud2114

24

OJ Simpson...GUILITY!!!!!!!!!!

by zeroday in

jw
friends

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=d93jgue80&show_article=1

bud2114

A lot of OJ haters out there in JWD land. I see it as not so clear cut as everyone makes it. In my humble opinion the only thing OJ is guilty of is EXTREME STUPIDITY. Who else but a complete idiot would have fallen into the trap set by the greedy sleaze bags he was with? Anyone can see the whole incident was a complete set-up by these men (gutter-trash looking for crumbs off OJ's noteriety) that he stupidly went along with (there is no way OJ is smart enough to think this thing up). The case would never have gone to trial if it were anyone else, believe me. $210,000 for the tape? Thats not chicken change.

Any idiot would have smelled a rat long before they were suckered into going to that nice hotel (security cameras - hello!) and storming into that room were everything was recorded. I mean if you are going to do something like this you pick some dive out on the outskirts of town that nobody frequents and you plan a bit better. Stupid, OJ, when you know you must stay beneath the radar when public opinion is so against you after what happened 13 years ago.

As far as the conviction, where was the defense? OJ not called as a witness? No plea bargain attempt for OJ? And what about the jury selection? In my state the defense attorney approves the selection of the jury and dismisses any he doesn't feel comfortable with. How could OJ's defense allow for this jury to be made up of mostly white women? I haven't come across a single white woman in 13 years that doesn't hate OJ and doesn't think that he got away with murder 13 years ago. I tell you it was a done deal once the jury selected. Anyone who says that OJ's prior acquittal had nothing to do with this verdict is kidding themselves.

The reason he was acquitted earlier is that there were no witnesses and no physical evidence linking OJ to the crime (the glove didn't shrink, OJ would have never bothered to wear gloves if this was a crime of passion like we were led to believe). The whole prosecution case was built on OJ's possible motive and his flimsy alibi. Again, that case should have never gone to trial and wasted a year of everyone's life and a lot of tax payer's money. Sure, OJ had motive and a history of jealous behavior, but he didn't do it - he's too stupid to make sure there were no witnesses or to make sure he covered his tracks. The man's IQ is what, 98? Not the sharpest tool in the shed. This latest case just shows the level of OJ's stupidity and proves that in no way he could be personally involved in the earlier crime.

Now for the sentencing. If the judge had any sense they would look at the incident properly and not biased like the jury, the prosecution, the Nevada detectives, the Nevada police, and everyone else associated with the case. Not likely though, the judge is a white woman. Too bad OJ. Have a nice life.

104

Oh God she's dumb... LOL!

by dawg in

this election is over... no way that performance can't hurt the mccain cause... lol!

.

bye bye republicans, at least she's "honest"... lol!

bud2114

Watching Palin hopelessly stumble through the debate I'm reminded of my favorite quote from the "Back to the Future" movie. After Marty McFly suddenly departs from the dinner table of his young mother (year 1955) after she grabs his leg under the table, her mother says "strange boy." The father, though, counters with the classic, "He's (Palin's) an idiot! Comes from upbringing. Parents were probably idiots too. Lorraine, if you ever have a kid like that I'll disown you."