Posts by Esmeralda

19

Stuff we wouldn't do offline that we do here

by joelbear in

jw
friends

1. argue with a six year old.. ever had a deep discussion with a six year old (or someone with a three year old's mentality)?

ever heard two six year old's arguing?.

typically it turns to name calling and "i know you are but what am i" exchanges fairly rapidly.. would we walk up to a 6 year old or a mentally challenged adult and engage in one of these ridiculous, non-productive and demoralizing exchanges?.

Esmeralda

Hey, Joelbear my sweetie, I have to say that my six year old (turning 6, b-day on Christmas day actually) argues a lot more rationally and reasons with more wisdom than any of the posters that you would compare her and her little comrades to. Don't believe me? Just read the posts I've put up recently where she sees through the WTS bullshit that it takes some adults a lifetime to see through.

Six year olds have a lot more insight and a hell of a lot more honesty than many adults ever will! *lol*

*hugs* love ya!
Essie
(taking up for the six year olds! I remember being six and I made a LOT of sense back then!) *lol*

P.S. Off topic, to Unc: Brucie baby, I still have not seen Moulin Rouge. Working on it! Have to pick up the video. Maybe it'll be in my Christmas stocking, who knows?

ROFLMAO The first time I tried to type the name of that movie I typed "Mulan Rouge" *ROFL* You're on my mind Marilyn! *LOL*

8

Forgiveness and Guilt Trips

by Mommie Dark in

jw
friends

http://www.echonyc.com/~onissues/f95guilt.html.

got this in my mail today; i thought it was fascinating.

it's long but well worth reading.

Esmeralda

NOTE: This post has been edited for clarification!

That is a totally great article. It makes me ill the way that people are guilted if they can't forgive their abusers in the "Christian" sense. That kind of forgiveness as described in that article victimizes the victim all over again!

As Safe said, any forgiveness must be in the victims own time and way, and FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE VICTIM, not the abuser!

I got a whole new view of the "forgiveness" issue from the Dr. Phil McGraw "Get Real Challenge" that I've been participating in online for the past 9 weeks. In the episode of the series where he talks about forgiveness, he says that his version of it in no way says that you will ever believe that what the abuser did was okay in any way. What it means is that you have to let it go because otherwise it eats away at the core of who you are, and will poison your life.

He says that people who 'forgive' in this manner (letting it go, putting it in the past and moving forward, while not ever forgetting the wrong that was committed) allows them to stop victimizing themselves in place of the abuser. He says that otherwise the abuse continues over and over in the persons head every day of their life and keeps them prisoner of that person.

I know that I'm not saying this nearly as well as he did.

Here is something on his views of forgiveness that is up on Oprah's website:

Forgiving Others
Forgiveness means to say 'I will not hate you any more.' You don't need to be controlled by that any more.'
Remember Life Law #7: "Life is managed, not cured.". It's a step you have to take every day.
Ask yourself: What would happen if you forgave him, and forgave yourself for not being enough?
Forgiveness is about you. It's about you withdrawing your feelings and not being locked in a bond of hatred. Questions of right and wrong have nothing to do with it. If we make fairness a basis for forgiveness, we're going to be at war with the people in our lives for the rest of our lives. Is the other person worth it?
Remember: Anger changes who you are, and it can absolutely define who you are. Anger is such a strong and destructive emotion it can dominate every action, every exchange with people in your life. Any time you see someone carrying anger, it's nothing more than an outward sign of hurt, fear or frustration. Forgiveness can help you release the anger, and bring those in your life closer to you.

I do not believe at all in shaming the victim and neither does Phil. His way makes sense to me, and I'm just posting it here in case it might help somebody struggling with this issue.

love you MommieD!
essie

22

Does DF'ing Backfire?

by metatron in

jw
friends

in an organization as obsessed with control as this one is,.

i have to wonder if the society's leadership ever considers how.

disfellowshipping can turn against them.. i doubt, when they developed the idea of a person "disassociating.

Esmeralda

I know it certainly did in my case!

I still had some lingering doubt about whether the WTS was right and I would die at Armageddon for my "sins".

Once I got out of the environment and had some time totally away from my JW family, it was like coming out of a trance. I could see clearly for the first time in my life what a crock the whole JW "belief structure" is.

I was df'd nearly 2 years before I sought out other exJW's on the net. I did it to seek input on how to deal with the members of my family who were/are still shunning me.

I've come to realize especially recently that the shunning has backfired especially in that I actually view it as a protection now; my family is crazy JW's or not, so it's actually healthier for me to be away from them.

I agree totally with what Amarie said, that once you're out, you realize that you never want to go back. At least that's what happened for me. There isn't anything that could get me to go back to being a dub now.

16

Christmas Presents

by Celtic in

jw
friends

from everyone that you all know here, what do you suppose is the best christmas present solution for that person/s?

what do you think that person would get the most fun and enjoyment and appreciation out of?.

name them, and the corresponding ideal present, from your perspective.. peace.

Esmeralda

Here we go, gang...

What I wish that I could give some of my JW.com comrades (please forgive me, those of you that I missed)

These are in no particular order. Some silly, some not so silly...

Seven (In the form of a certificate, for when you're ready someday) A
destination wedding, for you and that special someone, any exotic locale of your choosing. Gown, tux, and all the trimmings :)

Kismet: I wish I could give you a suit of armor, because you're chivalrous and it could come in handy when performing moderator duties on *ahem* "other" boards...

Caole: a cozy little coffee house with a steady stream of friends coming in and out and playing the juke box :)

Cowboy: a Cowgirl! (unless you already have one. Then...I guess I'd give you a trip off into the sunset and happily ever after)

Safe4kids: I'd give you a Wurlitzer jukebox and an endless supply of cd's.

MommieDark: I'd give you the energy you had when you were just a lil' one.

Freepeace: I like the dark alley idea *lol* But seriously...I'd give you a vision of ten years into the future; of your son hugging you (perhaps before his wedding) and saying "Thank you Dad, for all you did for me. It meant the world to me, and I hope to be as fine a man, and father, as you are someday."

Think4oneself: I want you to be there, with your boys as well, beside
Freepeace for the above occaision!

COMF: Cooking eh? I'd git you a big ol' stock pot, a bunch of fresh
vegtables, and the recipe for my grandmothers soup, which is amazing. Oh, and I'd like to give you a jam session with the JW.com musicians of your choice :)

Billygoat: The man of your dreams : )

Joelbear: Hoss Cartwright (yeah, I know, someone else got him for you already) with the ranch and land to go with him so you can run around nekkid all you like!

silentlambs: Jurisdiction in all 50 states and all Allied countries to
pronounce sentencing on convicted child molesters.

Tina: Like the others said: Your boy, safe and sound, back to see you and Honorably discharged at the end of his tour!!!

Mulan: A month-long spa vacation where your every whim would be attended to, and you wouldn't be allowed to lift a finger except to maybe ring for the concierge! :)

Princess: Hmmm...a mom of young kids? Maybe I can get you into the same spa just not for as long LOL

alamb: Three very beautiful gifts, all sitting beside you under the tree, sparkling, laughing, and saying what you deserve to hear: "We love you Mom, you're the best." Because you are. Followed by "Boy, are we glad we didn't grow up to be Jehovah's Witnesses."

Kent: Access to Bethel/governingbody records and all the high tech goodies to dish the dirt on em.

Randy: A fortune in back-pay for all the work you've done giving of yourself to others through your website. And a gorgeous house on the California beach of your choosing.

Patriot: A medal of valor for your contributions after the tragedies of Sept 11; an American flag signed by everyone here at JW.com to show how proud we are of you, and something that you already have, actually...the gratitude of the nation. *hug*

Englishman: A small pub to own (but not have to hassle with running) for you to throw parties for friends and family.

Uncle Bruce: A lifetime supply of theater tickets to great musical productions for you and the Mrs.

Maximus: Health, Wealth, and a return with interest of all the love you've given others.

Farkel: To find out that you're really the crown prince of some previously unknown principality and that everyone has to call you "Sire". Then the staff to go with it so you can spend all your time educating lurkers in the way that only you can.

Bea: The warmth of sunshine on days when you feel cold inside.

Slipnslidemaster: A holodeck for an hour and your choice of T'Pol, Seven of Nine, or Deanna Troi.

Crossroads: Happiness, love, and peace of mind!

Simon: His prescriptions paid in full for life (because SURELY he must have to take SOMETHING to be able to tolerate us all LOL) ;)

Angahrad: A power outage every now and again when the kids are away on sleep overs just so you can have Simon all to yourself for awhile !

I know I'm forgetting people. Don't hurt me. Just remind my lil' swiss cheese brain and I'll add you to my list :)

*hugs* for all!
essie

DOH! And I wanted to say, Celtic...lots of trees to hug! *lol*

16

Christmas Presents

by Celtic in

jw
friends

from everyone that you all know here, what do you suppose is the best christmas present solution for that person/s?

what do you think that person would get the most fun and enjoyment and appreciation out of?.

name them, and the corresponding ideal present, from your perspective.. peace.

Esmeralda

Okay you guys! You did two things:

1. Made me cry, you're all so sweet,
2. (and this is the real Christmas miracle here) Left me speechless!
But I'm sure its only temporary ;) *lol*

I promise I will give this some thought and post my gift list soon. I'm like this when I Xmas shop in RL, I have to find just the perfect gift for everyone. That will take some thought.

You guys are the best. I can't think of any gift better than what you've already given me though in the past 2 years, acceptance, understanding, laughter, sharing tears, and one hell of an education *LOL*

More soon!
love you all!

*blushing*
Essie

26

"Mom, why would He do such a thing?"

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

tonight, as my husband was driving our daughter home from ballet lessons, she spoke up quietly from her booster seat in the rear of the car..

"justin?".

"yes, leah?".

Esmeralda

Thanks Outnfree...your point is valid about them picking such things up at meetings. That's why when I talk to my ex about this stuff I always present that as an option, helps him keep his temper in check. It does happen.

The latest development:

Ten minutes ago, I called my ex on the carpet for what Leah said. He came to pick her up to take her to dinner and I stepped outside and told him what happened. Of course he said that he "never said any such a thing" and "didn't know where she'd gotten the idea"

He got a very familliar look on his face though (when he was trying to hide something) when I brought up how much it upsets her to think that he loves his God more than her. He rubbed his chin too, that's a dead giveaway with him that he's lying/hiding something.

I said "Well, maybe you didn't say it to her directly but I want to be sure that she understands that you don't believe that I'm in league with the Devil."

"It's not my place to say such a thing." he said casually.

Still rubbing that chin.

"That's right," I said, looking him squarely in the eye. "Just remember that. And make sure she remembers that too."

The message was received. If he didn't say it to her and she picked it up at the hall, well I acted as if I gave him the benefit of the doubt. But I know damn well the way he operates.

He looked like he knew he'd been busted; and believe me, after seven years of marriage I can read the man like a book.

Maybe he'll think before he opens his mouth the next time. Or at the very least he's been reminded that what he says will get back to me.

Thanks everyone for the love and support. It really means a lot :)

*hugs*
Essie

p.s. Good lord Jeff, you don't have to take on the responsibility of apologizing to me for the male of the species *LOL* Not your job, man! But I appreciate the thought just the same. My husband has often said the same thing to me in the past. But you know what? It's not the sex that matters in this case. It's the Borg. Just ask dear Freepeace how evil JW women can be.

20

Another Christmas confession.

by Mulan in

last week, i told about how i watched the christmas eve sky, for santa claus, after my parents became witnesses, thinking he just didn't come to our house anymore.. here is another thing i did.

all through school (my parents became dubs before i went to kindergarten) i participated in decorating the room for christmas.

i sang all the carols, and ate the goodies that were brought my the moms.

Esmeralda

Hey Mulan your stories brought back a flashback for me: I remember when I was a teenager and Band Aid did that benefit song for Christmas... "Do they know its Christmas" I used to blast it on my headphones when it came on the radio.

I remember thinking that any song singing about helping starving people couldn't really be bad...

I wish I could find it on cd or online, have looked all over. Would sure love to blast it through the house now :)

*hugs* love ya!
essie

26

"Mom, why would He do such a thing?"

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

tonight, as my husband was driving our daughter home from ballet lessons, she spoke up quietly from her booster seat in the rear of the car..

"justin?".

"yes, leah?".

Esmeralda

*rofl* Thanks TR, for that succinct, stunning rebuttal! You made my morning and had me doing a spit take with my coffee.

There is absolutely nothing I can add to that *lol*

Oh, except maybe that I wish I was making this stuff up. Maybe then I would have gotten some sleep last night.

Thanks for all the support and kind remarks, guys and gals. They are appreciated :)

Hippie...Peace.

p.s. TR! I miss your old Burke quote. (I think it was Edmond Burke?) It has become my all time favorite.

*hugs*
Essie

26

"Mom, why would He do such a thing?"

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

tonight, as my husband was driving our daughter home from ballet lessons, she spoke up quietly from her booster seat in the rear of the car..

"justin?".

"yes, leah?".

Esmeralda

Thanks for the response, Mulan I know I can always count on you for encouragement when my the idiot (aka my ex) gets the better of me! *hug*

I have thought about that, I discussed it with my lawyer awhile back and he said that it's a tough thing to prove. I am filing all this stuff away though. I'm very lucky that my kid is so smart, though because she said to me later this evening "Mom, I wish I was here with you all the time. I don't want to be like Dad, I want my life to be like yours when I grow up."

One day at a time...one day at a time...ugh I need to go meditate or something!

*hugs* love ya!
Essie

26

"Mom, why would He do such a thing?"

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

tonight, as my husband was driving our daughter home from ballet lessons, she spoke up quietly from her booster seat in the rear of the car..

"justin?".

"yes, leah?".

Esmeralda

Tonight, as my husband was driving our daughter home from ballet lessons, she spoke up quietly from her booster seat in the rear of the car.

"Justin?"

"Yes, Leah?"

"My Dad told me that you're supposed to love Jehovah even more than you love your family."

"Oh, he did?"

"Yeah." her voice got even smaller than should be possible for one of only six years (this month) and she added, "That has to mean that he loves Jehovah even more than me."

"You tell Mommy about that when we get home, okay sweetheart?" he said, shaking his head with disgust. He knew that it would take both of us to tackle this development.

So that is just what she did.

She came into the room, head hanging, her little dark ponytail swinging in a little pouf on top. Usually she bounces in from dance lit from the inside. Tonight, she looked like her flame had been doused with a firehose.

"Mom, Dad told me that you're supposed to love Jehovah even more than your family."

"Oh? Is that so?"

"Yeah." her chin started to quiver. "That means he loves Him even more than me." she started to cry. I scooped her up and pulled her into my lap and said,

"Leah, do you think that God made parents to love anyone more than their own children? Does that make sense to you?"

"No, I don't get it. You should love your kids most."

"Well, that's what I believe too. I know that Dad thinks he's right to believe the way that he does. That he is following what God wants. But I believe that whatever God is, that it made me the way that I am, and that loving you the most is what "he" expects of me more than anything else. And I do, and nothing can change that. Now, go upstairs and get clothes and get ready for your shower."

I talked to my husband for a few minutes while she did her stuff, hearing about what happened in the car, and when I met her upstairs in the bathroom, she said "Mom, Know what I did while you were downstairs? I prayed to Jehovah."

"Oh?"

"Yeah. I said to Him, "You know, Jehovah, I love you and I think everything you do is great, except this one thing. Why would you do such a thing?" (those are her words, verbatim. She sounded way too grown up :(

"Such a thing as what?"

"Tell parents to love him more than their children. Dad said that if I pray to Jehovah, He'll always help me. Maybe He'll change his mind."

"Remember, Dad doesn't know everything, and you know that I don't believe in the same thing he does so..."

"Dad says that you do what Satan wants." she inturrupted, truly troubled by the idea.

My stomach clenched. Damn him anyway. I reminded her that Dad doesn't know what I believe about God and so she shouldn't pay attention to all that. That I don't do anything on Satan's behalf, and that Dad has no business judging what I do.

Then I got down on my knees (and those of you who know me know what a monumental task that is, not to mention getting back up!) and held her by the shoulders and said;

"Sometimes, God uses people to answer prayers, Leah. So I'm telling you this, which is probably the only answer you're going to get. No matter what Dad does, Justin and I love you, just as you are, and there is no one in the Universe that we love as much as you. And I am always going to be there for you, no matter what happens. Count on it. No matter what Dad does."

It's so sad to know that already my daughter is finding out the limits to her father's "love". At least I am grateful that she will have a soft place to fall, back on my husband and I, when she realizes how "loving" JW standards really are.

~Esmeralda
(still lurking about)