i was raised a jw and as i've probably said before, i left when i was around 18... i'll be 27 in a few days, and as i get older realise how i do not really know how to celebrate anything.
being raised a jw we never had xmas or birthdays (or any celebration), and since none of the friends i had when i left the jw's were christian either, i have to this day never celebrated it... i am not christian and will openly admit that i couldn't care less about the religious side of christmas, but what i see around me, everywhere in the world are people who aren't really christian either, celebrating christmas, either for kids or friends or whatever, but i've never done that or had anyone around me to do that with... people look forward to this time of year so much, they buzz and rush around like it's a real event, and to this day i've never been able to feel that way.
most of my christmas/birthdays since leaving jw's have been spent by myself, completely devoid of celebration, i want to get into that feel good spirit, but i don't know how, and if i try to fake it, i know it is fake.
I am 52 and cannot ever remember celebrating Xmas and probably wouldn't feel comfortable about it yet.
I do believe that Witness kids have a tough time at Xmas though. Mine are grown up now but if they weren't I would certainly consider making some sort of Xmas arrangements.
Eyeslice
do you still go to the memorial?
and if not is this a reason to dfs you?.
and if or when you stopped going did you feel guilty?.
Hi Vittvin,
To answer your question - you cannot be disfellowshipped for not attending the memorial.
Here is a list of things you can be had for;
- Manslaughter.
- Sexual misconduct, including; adultery, fornication, and other forms of "por.ne'a.."
- Apostasy. (Caution: this includes celebrating 'worldly holidays)
- Drunkenness.
- Stealing, thievery, fraud.
- Deliberate, malicious lying; bearing false witness.
- Reviling; slander.
- Obscene speech.
- Failure to abstain from blood.
- Greed, gambling, extortion.
- Adamant refusal to provide materially for one's ovn family, leaving wife and children destitute when having the means to provide.
- Nonneutral activitics.
- Fits of anger, violence.
- Misuse of tobacco or addictive drugs
- Loose conduct. Term not restricted to sexual immorality.
Looks like you are doing the right thing to me. Keep as low a profile as possible, try not to be part of the flock, and you will be suprised how much will escape their attention.
Eyeslice
will there ever be a time when you feel that you have let go of your jw past??
?
No. For those of us who were lucky enough to not be too emotionally scarred, we still have family and friends in.
Eyeslice
i have noticed something for the last couple of years.
the lessons appear to me much easier and less meaty (this has been discussed at length).
however, something i haven't seen discussed too often is the changes that have occurred in the thinking portion of preparing for the meetings.
Hi Listener,
I believe you are right. I notice that even the reviews of the videos have pre-scripted questions.
I believe this has to do with the fact that there are plenty of aweful elders out there who could never stick to the assigned material and wander off with their own pet rants. So, the society takes out any scope for individuality. Service meeting items are marked 'introductory comments should be limited to less than 1 minute' and then into the pre-set questions.
It all part of dumbing down and and greater control policy. You just are not encouraged to think.
Eyeslice
you knew what things the jws are wrong about, and did not praticipate in them, or propagate them (there would be no reprisal from the boe or other jws if you did this).
your family and friends would treat you the same if you were a jw or not.
i am wondering who would be compelled by some inner flame to leave jws even if you could stay and believe or behave how you wanted.
It took me long enough to leave anyway - but the good thing about this board is that you realise that you are not the only mug.
Being very left-wing and socialist in my views, I think I would have found it impossible to leave if the Society had been a little more charitable in terms of feeding the poor, health care and educating the under privileged. I could that if I had found myself running a charitable hospital in Africa I would have continued in it. But no encouragement to get educated or charity with the WTB&TS.
Eyeslice
.
by recruiting new members,expanding.
is it money?
I think I disagree with the publishing corporation line.
Yes the WTB&TS is big on publishing but this is not what motivates them. What they are desperate to see is continued growth and expansion. This they feel is a sign that Jehivah is blessing them. Why else would they still continue to publish the world-wide service report every year?
The problem is that the large increases they saw in the mid 70's are not likely to be repeated again, even in the event of some global situation or disaster. But they still want to spin the yarn that the preaching work is saving lives.
Eyeslice
.
by recruiting new members,expanding.
is it money?
Control and growth are the life blood of the society.
The society has a history of being geared up for large scale growth, huge printing facilities, Kingdom Hall construction teams, etc. Recently in the west however, they have been severly disappointed, no growth, no requirement for new halls. Maintaining motivation then has become increasingly difficult.
Eyeslice
we are so busted.
i learned tonight, from my source, that someon saw our christmas tree and reported it to the elders.. rats, our days of anonymity are likely almost over.
starting tuesday, the local congregation has the circuit and the district overseer, before their ca next weekend.
Hi Mulan,
I know that your husband and you were fairly prominent in the congregation at one time, elder, elder's wife, etc. I find myself in much the same position, and for reasons of family and a few close friends who are still 'in', I do not want to find myself ending up being disfellowshipped.
But as an ex-elder myself, I know the problem that the indiscretions on the part of former members can pose to the body of elders if the person has not attended the meetings for quite some time. The rule of thumb is 'does the congregation or the public at large still consider the person to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses?' If the answer is no, then it is unlikely that they will attempt to take any action against you, i.e. disfellowship you in your absence.
I always make it very clear to elders and other witnesses who speak to me that I no longer consider myself to be under the authority of the congregation. I re-enforce this message by never going to a single meeting at the Kingdom Hall (the spiritually weak person who goes to even one meeting every 3 months will still be considered a target for judicial reproof).
As I said before, I don't want to end up being disfellowshipped. I don't mind being classified as a worldly person or an unbelieving husband. After all, witness can be very nice to worldly people.
Eyeslice
i ask this question because the average jw does not show true love though they are commanded to do so.
the average jw often confesses that the meetings are quite boring.
the average jw complains about almost everything within the org.
What an excellent thread with some great comments!
I think dh's comments are interesting
My parents for example, my mother particularly will openly admit that she does not think the 'End' is as close as she used to think it was... If I pushed the question I know she would admit to knowing that her life will end before any New System appears... I think deep down she probably knows my life will end before any New System comes either, yet she still goes.
I think many of the older ones, including older elders, are feeling that way. The younger ones probably haven't thought that deeply about it yet.
Why do they stay and not investigate their beliefs further? It is because of the consequences.
Most of us here have had a really hard time freeing ourselves and as a result have been either ostracized, shunned or disfellowshipped. Many have lost the association of family and life-long friends. A lot still in the organization are not emotionally strong enough to go through that; so they hang on in there. They are happier with the 'head in the sand' approach than risking upset and so they convince themselves it is still the truth.
Eyeslice
it seems to me that a recurring theme for exiting witnesses is not their questions of faith (most have researched mightily before coming here, or had their own crisis of conscience), but the lack of fellowship that will happen if they leave.
it feels good to be part of a group, to feel wanted and needed.
the problem arises when that fellowship is not based on you as a person, but by what image you present, or how much you "produce".
Hi Maybebabies,
That's probably the hardest habit for a newly exiting JW to break, looking at all others as less than human.
How right you are! Before I left I was a pillar in the congregation, had been in all my life, ex-elder with lots of friends. As soon as I stopped attending, no one wanted to know me or my family.
From being asked out every weekend (and inviting others round ourselves of course), we went to not being asked out once. My wife still attends and still is very highly valued in the congregation, ex-pioneer, excellent publisher record (I was secretary and know my wife's field service was in the top half dozen in the congregation) but she is never asked out any more. I have never aired any doubts or any apostate views so I know people view me as "spiritually" weak rather than apostate. We invited a few from the congregation round in the summer and they all came but have never asked us back in return, including my "elder" brother-in-law.
Fortunately, my business partner and I get on really well and despite the fact he is not a witness, my is happy to associate with him and his wife. They are a great couple but I do think that my wife associates with them more out of sympathy for me (Billy no mates) rather than out of choice.
Like the idea of visiting old folks. I have close contact with a number of old folks homes and have thought about doing a sing along with my guitar when I get chance.
Eyeslice.
