Posts by B_Deserter

12

Do you remember Febuary 25 1990?

by IreallydidwalkoutofaKH in

jw
friends

i remember it as the "great disapointment.......it was a date broadcasted during the "service and school" and was to be a moment families should be together when the "instructions were provided"!...........

realize everyone........ reading.....this was 1 year and 56 days after the january 1st 1989 wt was in circulation.

this had to be the "begining of doom!

B_Deserter

Remember the "special meeting" they had a few years ago that was like a mini-convention. I remember they had witnesses from all over the Midwest packed into the Pontiac Silverdome oh much shorter notice than usual. Even people from southern Ohio were there. The anticipation was thick enough to cut with a knife.

And then it turned out to be just the annual accounts meeting, the same thing they have every year except that all JWs had to go. There was nothing new, nothing exciting, just the same old boring mundane crap they pull every time.

20

Suggestions on how to properly get disfellowshiped

by IreallydidwalkoutofaKH in

jw
friends

here is how i would like to get df'd.

during the service meeting of cource the announcement would be made.

i would like to walk in the meeting during the song (preferably..."then they will know") leading up to the the announcements and walk to my seat in the front of the kingdom hall dressed as darth vader.

B_Deserter

If you really want to be disfellowshipped why not just disassociate and turn in a letter? The results are exactly the same and the congregation doesn't even know whether you got DA'd or DFed anyway.

29

Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Cult?

by digderidoo in

i have found these 14 characteristics of a typical cult and below are some questions regarding the behaviour of a cult.

my personal opinion is that the watchtower society fits into most of these characteristics, with the exception of 1& 14. possibly part of number 10 fits, but not all.

i feel that all of the questions posed should be asked of jw's and all of the further symptoms apply too.

B_Deserter

I think the confusion of whether or not JWs are a cult is the popular depiction of cults. Typically, only the worst ones get the press, like the People's Temple, Branch Davidians, Heaven's Gate, etc. The society uses this popular image to its advantage. They like to point out how JWs don't live on compounds and seem basically normal. They even say that Jehovah's Witnesses are just average people to outsiders. To outsiders, the promote the idea that Jehovah's Witnesses do not stand out. Yet, once someone becomes a JW, he/she is told that they MUST stand out. Witnesses internally pride themselves on being recognized as a Jehovah's Witness based on their physical appearance.

Even so, Jehovah's Witnesses do not fit the mold of extreme suicide cults, but that does not mean that it isn't a cult. There are many lists of what makes a cult, and typically Jehovah's Witnesses match many of the aspects in those lists. Consider this list and how it fits the organization.

A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members' behavior. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail not only what members believe, but also what members wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep, and bathe, and how members think, speak, and conduct familial, marital, or sexual relationships. The society publishes many article regarding proper dress for Christians, how Christians are supposed to "stand out" from the world. Also, certain professions like police officer, security guard, and military careers are forbidden. Family relationships are given a set pattern, and one can find himself being removed from positions of responsibility because his family does not "fall in line." Finally, sexual relationships are also regulated, including what kinds of sexual activity are acceptable even between married couples.
A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, to carefully follow cult rules. They are also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders or nonmembers, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves or the group. In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations. This reminds me of "theocratic war strategy" where we are instructed to hide information from the courts if it does not aid the goals of the society. Confession of sin to the elders is also mandatory.
A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising. Altruistic movements, established religions, and other honorable groups also recruit and raise funds. However, these actions are incidental to an honorable group's main purpose of improving the lives of its members and of humankind in general. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fund-raising. A cult's real goal is to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader. Recruiting is the Jehovah's Witness's only purpose in life. It is the only honorable activity one can engage in. Donation collection is also heavily stressed, especially when a congregation's funds get low.
A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the ONLY viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. But these claims are empty and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult. The whole premise of the Jehovah's Witness religion is to stand out, and break with the traditions of mainstream Christianity. The life of a Jehovah's Witness is presented as the ONLY hope for the world's ills. Jehovah is the ONLY possible solution.
A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice. For example, if a schoolteacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, an appeal can be made to the superintendent. In a destructive cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters. In this case the "leader" is the governing body, though Jehovah's Witnesses won't admit it. The governing body has the final say in all doctrinal matters. There is no appeal process to their decision.
A destructive cult's leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life. For example, leaders of flying saucer cults claim that beings from outer space have commissioned them to lead people away from Earth, so that only the leaders can save them from impending doom. The leadership in Jehovah's Witnesses is claimed to be men who are "selected" by the Holy Spirit, and all the decisions are guided by it.
A destructive cult's leader centers the veneration of members upon himself or herself. Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focus the veneration of adherents on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves. Witnesses teach that being obedient to the society is more important than being correct, as they believe that God will correct the society over time. Even if one disagrees with a teaching, he is expected to teach it unaltered to others.
A destructive cult's leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic. Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their families, friends, and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers' possessions, money, time, and lives. Family relationships with those who become Jehovah's Witnesses are severely altered. Abandonment of career to devote more time to serving religious interests is highly encouraged. It is often suggested that members subsist on part-time work in order to "pioneer," or devote full-time service to recruiting others. Being a JW is also quite time-consuming with meetings three times a week, studying, and field service. Members are taught to schedule their lives around religious events, not vice versa.

11

What is it with these conventions?

by tryingtounderstandjws in

my friend that is a jw spent the last week doing all kinds of things that go against everything i've been reading about jw's.

for example, drinking, hanging out with "worldly" people, gambling, having sex outside marriage and just basically living it up and doing whatever they wanted.

now, they're at this convention for the last two days and they're acting like a robot, spewing bible verses and talking about how evil the world is with all it's problems and immorality.

B_Deserter

Would it be possible for you to go to a convention that he is not attending? Depending on how big the arena is, there are often conventions for different groups about every weekend. They're all exactly the same. If you really wanted to understand what a convention was like but didn't want to make your friend feel awkward, going to one he isn't at will allow you to do that.

13

'Paradise Earth' makes absolutely no sense!

by navytownroger in

the jw idea of 'paradise earth' seems to be full of holes.

will babies of baptized jws also be in the new system?

if not, how could the child's parents consider it 'paradise' without their children?

B_Deserter

I actually can't think of one scripture that literally describes a paradise earth where no one gets sick and dies. The scriptures that talk about lions that eat straw and babies playing with cobras are actually referring to the return of the Israelites to their homeland after being freed by Cyrus. The living forever parts are in Revelation and never refer to that living forever being done on earth.

42

for "born-ins"

by Mandette in

jw
friends

does anyone remember being a little kid and being forced to sit through those 2 hour meetings?

specifically being made to listen to graphic accounts of whatever country that was going through horrific persecution.

(or any other horrors you might remember).

B_Deserter

All those accounts of persecution did nothing but frighten me to no end! They didn't "strengthen" my faith at all. I didn't think about those specific things you mentioned but I did think about how I would be tortured. I even had a dream once where we were executed by hanging from our wrists in razorblade-lined handcuffs The blades would cut into our wrists and blood would spill out everywhere. It was in an arena and it looked like a rodeo. All these graphic stories of being tortured in the holocaust, then they'd say to NOT BE FRIGHTENED! Yeah, right!

19

Ecclesiastes 10:20 equates to Sattelites?

by Tired of the Hypocrisy in

jw
friends

hi all, i get a weekly newsletter from jack and rexella van impe.

http://www.jvim.com/newsletter in the last one i got the folllowing idea on how the a bird is being compared to a satellite.

it makes sense to me.

B_Deserter

That's really a dubious connection. Satellites don't have "wings," and there is no "air" where they orbit, so they really can't be "birds of the air" can they? There is nothing to indicate that Solomon had something other than a literal "bird" in mind. This is a result of people so desperate to believe the Bible, there's no limit to what they'll come up with. It doesn't make sense at all, it's just wishful thinking.

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