Posts by LayingLow

16

The Earthly Hope for the thief on the cross?

by Honesty in

since jesus died first and the curtain in the temple was torn in two did the thief share in the earthly or the heavenly hope?.

so the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first man and of the other one who had been crucified with him.

when they came to jesus, they did not break his legs since they saw that he was already dead.

LayingLow

Amen. I agree Burns. When Rev 21:2 really hit me it was amazing.

16

The Earthly Hope for the thief on the cross?

by Honesty in

since jesus died first and the curtain in the temple was torn in two did the thief share in the earthly or the heavenly hope?.

so the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first man and of the other one who had been crucified with him.

when they came to jesus, they did not break his legs since they saw that he was already dead.

I agree that that is an excellent point. Jesus did precede the thief in death. I think the JW answer is more complicated than that, though. They do think that Jesus sacrifice was made at Calvary, but that 40 days after his resurrection, when he ascended to heaven, he offered the value of his blood to God as high priest and that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was the indication that it had been accepted. That being the case, I don't think they would say technically that anyone who died the same day as Jesus, or within the 40 days before his ascension, would have the heavenly hope. Also, they may feel that he offered his sacrifice to God on the day he was resurrected, which would be symbolized by the Festival of the First Fruits. If this is the case then it would be anyone who died after his resurrection (I think you would be able to find more information about this in that Watch Tower article last year about the festivals).

Now that I think about it, they technically hold that to go to heaven you must be born again by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That being the case, the spirit was not poured out until Pentecost hence no believers had the heavenly hope prior to Pentecost.

*I'm just going to add at this point that I don't agree with all this reasoning. I think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will eat in the Kingdom of God the same as James, John, and Peter. I had only written the above so that you might get a better understanding of the notions they have that their doctrine is based on.

6

Funny Car Group Story

by LayingLow in

shortly before i began fading i was in a car group when a person was telling me about a diet they were going to do.

they started mentioning all kinds of scriptures and completely misapplying them.

i know this person, and they have a history of doing this in the past, so i said "seriously, you shouldn't twist the scriptures like that.

LayingLow

Shortly before I began fading I was in a car group when a person was telling me about a diet they were going to do. They started mentioning all kinds of scriptures and completely misapplying them. I know this person, and they have a history of doing this in the past, so I said "Seriously, you shouldn't twist the scriptures like that." She said "What? I was just reading out of the Awake!." Boy, that was an awkward situation. [True Story]

216

I'm a Pioneer Married To a Wonderful Brother Reaching Out to be an MS...

by cognac in

and petrified... i just recently became a pioneer and always had nagging questions in the back of my mind.

so, i decided that when i have get a study i would research all the questions as i go along so as to prove everything in the truth... i got 4 studies in about 2 months.

all was fine, until i reached i think chapter 6 in the bible teach book about the resurrection.

LayingLow

Hello Cognac, I just wanted to say that I know what you're going through. It is very possible to come out of this with a much broader understanding of truth and a richer spiritual life. The good news the Apostles taught is much more grand than the good news you've heard. (Gal 1:8) I thought that was a nice point for Matt 24:14, it does matter what good news is being preached. Is the good news being preached today by Jehovah's Witnesses the same as the good news in 1925? or 1890? Remember Jude 3, 'the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.' I suppose the most important question is this, "Is the good news preached by Jehovah's Witnesses today the same as the good news preached in the first century A.D.?" I hope you continue to diligently search and continue to find answers that you will find even more satisfying than the answers you though you had.

31

Do you shun Jw's now?

by AK - Jeff in

i have gone thru phases with this.

i sometimes have forced jw's who shun me to speak, or be embarrassed if they don't.

then i let up on that as the hurting lessened over time.

LayingLow

I'm neither DA'd nor DF'd at this point, so I still have witnesses come up and talk to me at stores or call me sometimes. It's all very awkward. Actually, my boss is a JW, also awkward sometimes, but we just don't talk about why I left. I find it to be a daily roller coaster of emotion on how to respond when I see a witness. Sometimes they call, sometimes I don't answer or call back. Other times, I'll answer and talk to them but it always ends up awkward, "Oh, we miss you!". As a person, I miss them too, no doubt. It's not me who left the truth, though. Just because a whole organization deviates from what truth they did have certainly doesn't obligate me to follow the lemmings. I've also over-sensitive to people's opinions/sentiments, which resulted in listening closer in the ministry(+), and also not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings by leaving the org(-). That kept me in longer than I ought to have been. I'll get into ruts sometimes of avoiding witnesses when I see them(because of being overly sensitive to their negativity over me leaving). But yesterday it finally hit me (again actually, seems like a bi-weekly epiphany) that I owe them nothing. I would be a JW if they had the truth. The fact that they do not means they failed me, and so when I remember that, and the valid doctrinal reasons why I left, I can lift my head and speak with confidence. I know who my mediator, Lord and Saviour is, and I cannot deny him in order to appease others. So whether or not I shun JW's on any particular day changes. Yesterday, I waved at a guy who was DF'ed a few years ago. He didn't wave back(he didn't know I left). How ironic.

18

JW's and Internet. Wikipedia?

by Burger Time in

jh posted a thread about how wikipedia clearly shows how goofy the doctrine of jw's has been in changing over the years.

so it makes me wonder could wikipedia be the driving force in the no "independent" study?

i know that my whole family uses wikipedia often and use it as a respected source when researching things.

LayingLow

Now that you mention it, I also was clicking around the links on the JW section of wikipedia when I came across a link to Ray Franz. I already had difficulty with doctrine. Eventually that got me to the point where I followed his wiki article and then read some of the free chapters of his book. Amazing how it all went down. For me to follow that link, however, I already had determined through study that several things were wrong, his book only confirmed it (and gave me further scriptural reenforcement). My friend at one point was showing me the wiki article, I'm sure he doesn't know what a part that played in my leaving.

18

JW's and Internet. Wikipedia?

by Burger Time in

jh posted a thread about how wikipedia clearly shows how goofy the doctrine of jw's has been in changing over the years.

so it makes me wonder could wikipedia be the driving force in the no "independent" study?

i know that my whole family uses wikipedia often and use it as a respected source when researching things.

LayingLow

I believe reading the content on wikipedia about witnesses really got the ball rolling for me. I had already had doubts, but when I looked at the timeline of doctrine changes, I felt sick. It's been a ride since then.

27

New Experience: I went to a Christmas service at a church Monday night....

by WingCommander in

it was my wife's sister's church, a lutheran church.

i wanted to see my neice's sing in the choir and also just to take in the whole experience.

i have been married for 4 years (to non-jw woman) and have only participated in christmas activities breifly.

LayingLow

"that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him." -John 5:23 Good point, Just Human. Even witnesses worshiped Jesus somewhat till around the mid 40's to 50's. Why not? The angels do (Heb 1:6) I also went to a Christmas Eve service. There were candles there also. About ten minutes before it was over, they turn out the lights and the attendants lit their candles off of the advent candle. They then light the candle of the people on the end of the row, who lit their neighbors, etc... This, in order to show how Christ is the light of the world and through people carrying his light we become light bearers ourselves. It was very nice.

15

origins matter...foundations don't...jesus said they did.............

by oompa in

we all know dubs can't do any holidays because they are pagan or such.

even though nobody doing the holiday knows crap about the origin and is not doing it for that historical reason.. so why do dubs say our old teachings of the 1880-1950's don't matter?

because the light has gotton brighter and those old brothers went through a cleansing of thier teachings.

LayingLow

I agree oompa. My friend and I were talking lately about consistency. Hypocrisy results from inconsistency. Like a wedding ring, it has pagan origins. The shape of the heart goes back to Babylonia. Does that stop anyone, even witnesses, from wearing a pendant shaped like a heart, or a wedding ring? No. Why? Because no one is aware of the origin and the object or shape has taken on a new meaning. So if people celebrate something like Christmas, how can you slam them for it unless they do it for the old reason? If its for the new reason, its' no different than wearing a wedding ring to symbolize your love for your mate. Wearing a wedding band and celebrating holidays that have new meanings seem to go hand in hand. It's a philosophy that origins don't matter. However, if you have the philosophy that origins do matter (remember the candy/gutter illustration?) You better not only not celebrate Christmas, you better not wear hearts or rings, etc.. being consistent. The logical problem they have with this is as you pointed out. If origins matter, so do the origins of the WTS.

20

have any of u guys done telemarketing witnessing b4?

by XOCO in

i've just started to come up with this random topic in my head and some of good/bad experiences with telephone witnessing.

ive done it b4 but i was so uncomfortable calling ppl and telling them about the bible and stuff.

sometimes the person on the other end of the line would ask me how i got that number ?or how do u know my name?

LayingLow

I remember being terribly embarrassed doing that type. Instead of approaching standard topics (earthly paradise, etc...) I would pick obscure topics about like Cyrus invading Babylon and how that all went down. When I was finished, they may have learned some Bible history, I would then tell them to have a nice day. Most often they got bored and hung up, which also worked.