Posts by Gordy

307

JW Defenders- Is WTS Right to Insist You Stay Away From these Websites?

by OnTheWayOut in

i read these threads and there are a few that bend over backwards to say why wts is correct on this issue or that issue.. they act like typical jw's that refuse to acknowledge points that may show that wts is not following the scriptures or that wts goes beyond the scriptures in a way that is not supported by others.. the point could be the blood issue or shunning or whether 1799 or 1914 was the start (or finish?

) of the last days or whether there is a faithful and discreet slave class or not.

i don't want to harp on each point.

Gordy

The Governing Body doesn't even like JWs discussing the Bible amongst themselves, never mind with "apostates".

As this Kingdom Ministry of Sept 2007 shows:

*** km 9/07 p. 3 Question Box ***

Does "the faithful and discreet slave" endorseindependent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate? -- Matt. 24:45, 47.

No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a few associates of ourorganization have formed groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the New World Translation. Others explore scientific subjects related to the Bible. They have created Web sites and chat rooms for the purpose of exchanging and debating their views. They have also held conferences and producedpublications to present their findings and to supplement what is provided at ourChristian meetings and through ourliterature.

Throughout the earth, Jehovah's peopleare receivingample spiritual instruction and encouragement at congregation meetings, assemblies, and conventions, as well as through the publications of Jehovah's organization. Under the guidance of his holy spirit and on the basis of his Word of truth, Jehovahprovides what is needed so that all of God's people may be "fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought" and remain "stabilized in the faith." (1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7) Surely we are grateful for Jehovah's spiritual provisionsin these last days. Thus, "the faithful and discreet slave" does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight. -- Matt. 24:45-47.

It is commendable for individuals to want to use their thinking ability in support of the good news. However, no personalpursuit should detract from what Jesus Christ is accomplishing through his congregation on earth today. In the first century, the apostle Paul warned about getting involved in exhausting, time-consuming subjects, such as "genealogies, which end up in nothing, but which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith." (1 Tim. 1:3-7) All Christians should strive to "shun foolish questionings and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile." -- Titus 3:9.

For those who wish to do extra Bible study and research, we recommend that they explore Insight on the Scriptures, "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial," and our other publications, such as those that discuss the prophecies found in the Bible books of Daniel, Isaiah, and Revelation. These provideabundant material for Bible study and meditation, whereby we can be "filled with the accurate knowledge of [God's] will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, in order to walk worthily of Jehovah to the end of fully pleasing him as [we] go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God." -- Col. 1:9, 10.

26

Is punishing someone for changing their religion against international law

by ldrnomo in

i saw this on wikipedia:.

the united nations commission on human rights, considers the recanting of a person's religion a human right legally protected by the international covenant on civil and political rights: "the committee observes that the freedom to 'have or to adopt' a religion or belief necessarily entails the freedom to choose a religion or belief, including the right to replace one's current religion or belief with another or to adopt atheistic views [...] article 18.2 bars coercion that would impair the right to have or adopt a religion or belief, including the use of threat of physical force or penal sanctions to compel believers or non-believers to adhere to their religious beliefs and congregations, to recant their religion or belief or to convert."[5].

seems to me that being shunned by family and friends for quitting jehovah's witnesses would be penal sanctions.. .

Gordy

European Union Charter of Fundamental Rights

Article 10. Freedom of thought, conscience and religion

Definition

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right includes the freedom to change religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or in private, to manifest religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance. The right to conscientious objection is recognised, in accordance with the national laws governing the exercise of this right.

Legal Explanations

The right guaranteed in paragraph 1 corresponds to the right guaranteed in Article 9 of the ECHR and, in accordance with Article 52(3) of the Charter, has the same meaning and scope. Limitations must therefore respect Article 9(2) of the Convention, which reads as follows: "Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others

307

JW Defenders- Is WTS Right to Insist You Stay Away From these Websites?

by OnTheWayOut in

i read these threads and there are a few that bend over backwards to say why wts is correct on this issue or that issue.. they act like typical jw's that refuse to acknowledge points that may show that wts is not following the scriptures or that wts goes beyond the scriptures in a way that is not supported by others.. the point could be the blood issue or shunning or whether 1799 or 1914 was the start (or finish?

) of the last days or whether there is a faithful and discreet slave class or not.

i don't want to harp on each point.

Gordy

My testimony has over the years appeared on various websites, from Freeminds to CARM, and a few others, it even got translated into Italian for a Pentecostal website in Italy.

So in line with the subject about JWs and such "Christian/apostate" websites. Every so often I will get a letter from a JW that usuqally starts with the words "I saw your story on a website", then they proceed to tell me how wrong I am etc. Some throw in that I am going to die at Armageddon etc.

I always reply. Then usually finish with saying that they cannot be a very good JW as they are going against WT policy by looking at "apostate" websites. The odd one may reply saying the WT didn't say such a thing. I usually find some quotes from WT magazines, or Kingdom Ministry and send them back. I usually never hear from them again.

67

Fake Knock and Other Sneaky Tactics During Field Service

by sacolton in

yeah, i hated "field circus".

i don't like bothering people on saturday mornings about the latest watchtower & awake magazines and try to convert them from their religon to become a jehovah's witness.

so, what i did was just wait until the group passes by and fake knocked.

Gordy

Isaacaustin said
VS- not at all is it a life-saving work. The Brooklyn brass know it is not. If it was they would not use such a slow, painstaking, inefficient method to talk to no one (as no one is home). Those at home cut you off with a 'not interested' before they hear the message. If the brass beleived this to be 'the truth' they would get their message out en masse in such a way that even those not interested could not help but to be exposed to it.
This is so true, something I often thought myself when a JW.
If they really cared about this being a "life-sving" work, would they not use every means to get the message across. Everything from TV, Radio, adverts in newspapers amd magazines, billboards, etc
No, but they use a method that any other organisation dumped years ago as being unproductive. They boast that they are the only ones who preach house-to-house, and thats why, because everyone else knows its a useless why to find people.
They say they are following the "1st century Christians" of course the Christians back then, may have done it, but mainly because they didn't have TV, Radio etc etc. Not because it was the way that Christ wanted it done. Christ gave the command was to go and preach the Gospel. He didn't say go preach but only by house to house.
Its all just a way the Watchtower of keeping their members under control. Make the field service seem so important that not to do it means you're not getting through into the "New System". Plus you have a captive source that will always buy your publications.
Life-saving work , rubbish, more like a "money-making " work.

61

I agree with Jehovah's Witnesses!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

i agree with jehovah's witnesses!.

(i bet reniaa will be shocked to see this thread!).

to jehovah's witnesses: i commend your zeal for god, your desire for accurate knowledge and truth of the bible, your goals of drawing close to jehovah, and following and obeying christ's teachings, and your time spent studying the bible.

Gordy

The "faith/works" debate has been going on for centuries. Is it not, to put it very simply, "faith makes works/works show faith"

If I say "I love my wife" but never show that love by "works", like supporting her, showing affection, doing things for her, even just acknowledging her.

Yeah I can love my wife deeply , but without that outward display of love, my love may as well be dead.

allelsefails said
JWs teach a few things that are correct so do Catholics, so do Baptists, so do Menonnites, so do Christadelphians, so do Methodists, so do Episcopalians, so do ..... etc... ect... etc.....
This is what was said at the Westminister Assembly 1643.
“The idea goes back to a minority wing of the Puritan party in 17th century England. At the Westminster Assembly (1643) was a group of Independents akin to American Congregationalists. These men had come to the conclusion that the sinful condition of man, even Christian men, made the full and clear grasp of the truth of God an impossibility. Consequently, no single body of beliefs can ever fully represent God’s total demand upon the minds and hearts of believers, and no single body of Christians can claim to be the true church of God without considering other believers in other groups.”
“Thus, in the minds of these Puritans, the word denomination implied that a particular body of Christians (let us say, for example the Baptists ) was only a portion of the total Christian church called — or denominated — by its particular name, Baptist.”
“The denominational idea of the church originally stood for an important biblical truth. The church is one. There is only one Saviour, only one Gospel, only one Spirit, so there can only be one church. Divisions, therefore must be within the one body, not from the body. Otherwise Christ would be divided and that is unthinkable ( 1 Cor. 1:12-13 ).”²
- Source: From the book, “What People Ask About The Church ,” by Dale A. Robbins

11

How many WT labels and peculiar words???

by oompa in

jw
friends

the thread on "approved associate" made me think of this......geeze there are soooo many in jwland......personally, i miss "rendezvous"......not the buick.......i think there must have been a frency on the gb.......since brochure was also a fave....... but the people status labeling is the worst......is it like that in other faiths?........list your labes here...........oompa.

active.

inactive.

Gordy

By creating a "language" of their own it makes them feel special and separate from the "world" and "Christendom".

5

Question to ask them

by is there help out there in

jw
friends

next time they knock on your door ask then this question.

you want to buy a new car and you go into a new car dealership.

as soon a you go in the salesman put a gun to your head and says it you do not buy a car i will blow your brain out and kill you.

Gordy

The JWs make a point of "Christendom" frightening people with the threat of Hellfire.

Yet ignore their own threat that if you are not a JW, or even a JW who messes up, you are going to die in the fire of Armageddon.

57

Michael Jackson's Death Is Exposing Jehovah's Witnesses In A HUGE Way!!!

by minimus in

jw
friends

if you read comments made regarding mj's death, there are tons of people talking about his religion.

the fact that he was a jw that disassociated himself, is giving bloggers all sorts of ammunition regarding the rotten witness religion.

jws are trying to defend themselves and their religion and outsiders are clearly seeing how effed up jws really are.. good..

Gordy

When my non-JW father died in 1985 I asked about attending his funeral, as I was the only JW in the family.

I was told I and my wife could attend if we sat at the back and did not participate in anything. Also that we were told we could not send any flowers.

Later on I discovered that I could have sent flowers.

When my mother-in-law died, she had become a JW late in life, but became inactive because of ill-health.

They agreed to a funeral service at the Kingdom Hall. Then two days before changed their mind and said the KH could not be used. The family had to rush round to find somewhere and found a community hall they could use. But an Elder still took the service.

Even though having been a JW for 30 years, and now DA'd for 8 years , I still sometimes have diffilculty in understanding their thinking.

23

Remember 1989 when Indiana Jones said "JEHOVAH" was it a big deal in your Cong?

by Witness 007 in

i was at high school 1989 telling everyone....."yeah, harrison ford in "the last crusade"....he says jehovah!

" even though the movie really was not reccomended for die hard witnesses...anyone else remember?

was it a big deal?.

Gordy

Reinaa

You may struggle to find the divine name now since the pope has said it should be taken out of hymms and prayers too, and other christians churches do take their cue from the catholics. I'll be honest in all the years I went on the doors not many people knew the name Jehovah or even yahweh they thought 'Lord' was the original wording.
Why should what the Pope says effect what other churches do???
I attend a Pentecostal church we have a worship song with the chorus "There is no God like Jehovah." was is repeated about 6 times.
In my 30 years as a JW I came across plenty of people on the doors who knew "Jehovah" was Gods name.
I suppose in a way the Pope is right in way, after all "Jehovah" is only a made up name, a mixture of two names "YHWH+Adonai". Devised by a Catholic and approved by the Catholic Church. So why do JWs use something thought up by the Catholic Church?

122

Could Watchtower Collapse Be Sooner Than You Think?

by metatron in

jw
friends

there have been a number of developments over the past few months and they paint an interesting picture.. witnesses can keep dragging themselves to meetings ad infinitum however, the future of the watchtower itself is another story.

the evidence of continuing cash flow problems is now overwhelming.

if you talk to well placed witnesses, most won't deny it but simply blame it on the publishers financial problems.. they have cut off loans to congregations many of whom genuinely need new kingdom halls.

Gordy

Interesting premise from Metatron.

Something along the lines I have been thinking. No matter how much we can prove JW doctrine and teachings wrong, there will always be a hardcore who will believe no matter what. Unless that is the WT itself starts to change its beliefs to closer to orthodox Christianity. Then again there be would some hardliners, maybe a breakaway organisation.

But I have always thought that their demise would come through mainly external problems, mainly economic, through lower contributions, higher costs, maybe even taxation in the future.

They spent millions on Patterson, at a time they were expecting a period of great growth. I recall how we felt that such a wonderful place was being built. No talk about cutting back then, on printing back or laying Bethel staff off.

They just may as suggested maybe stop printing the Awake , and cut back on CO costs , visit congregations once a year instead of twice?

Other problems like the paedophile issue, already said to have cost them millions. How many more in the future will take them to court? They have over the years been whittling the blood doctrine down, probably end up as a "conscience matter". They cannot outright drop the blood doctrine. Think of the effect that would have on families were members have died because of it. If you have had a parent/husband/wife/child die because you kept the "no blood" doctrine. Then the WT turn round and say "New light - you can have a blood transfusion" you would either try to sue, or walk away from the organisation.

As Metatron says is it "unthinkable" ? Those of us who have been JWs have seen changes that when we were in, would thought "unthinkable.

What about disillusionment among JWs? Many older ones have been waiting for years for "the end" they went through the 1975 thing. They see the juggling with "generation" teaching, the numbers of the "anointed" increasing. I have heard of JWs who when I was with them you would have said were "strong spiritual" brothers, Elders even, that they would be there at "the end". But they have left, a couple of them over the paedophile issue, the others over had just had enough or learnt about the lies and deciet of the WT.

The younger ones , well the ones I've come across, seem to be a bit ambivalent about it all. Many of those who are my childrens ages 20-30 yrs old, and we know, all have practically left. I have met others in the local pub ( bar - for American readers) out for a night on the town. The sisters dressed in a way that would have had them in front of the Elders in my day. Met them either in groups of 4 or 6 out for the night at a weekend. I'm sure that a bit of "loose conduct" goes on as well. The ones I have spoken, say they don't believe all the teachings etc, that they are doing to keep parents happy. I have been told things about what some young JWs have got up to and even I have been shocked.

Well Ihave rambled on enough, trying to get all that I feel into a short posting.

But as many other on JWN and other forums have said , there is something definitely not right with the Watchtower organisation. One of those things you just can't put your finger on it but there is something there.