The WTS' published answer to when the Bible canon was established is: by the end of the First Century (i.e., before the apostacy). I don't recall any proof of this position other than the qualifiers "apparently" and "evidently." The basic teachings of the Bible are said to have been preserved by God through the centuries. It is also held that the NW translation addresses needed adjustments that have come to light in modern times, as well as to present the Bible in modern language. So far, this explanation has been satisfactory to the JWs.
DNCall
JoinedPosts by DNCall
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42
The Bible - Which books get to stay or go decided my men - cut & paste old school
by HarryMac inwestern traditioneastern orthodox traditionoriental orthodox traditionassyrian eastern traditionbooksprotestant.
[o 1]roman catholicgreek orthodoxslavonic orthodoxgeorgian orthodoxarmenian apostolic.
(part of 4 esdras)no.
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HOT OFF THE PRESS: ZO talk in Japan
by WinstonSmith inthis is literally hot off the press as in from about half an hour ago.. we have a friend from nz (who is wavering and knows our situation) and he is on holiday in japan at the moment.
today there was a zone overseer talk that he went to in nagoya (southern japan) and it has just finished up.
straight after the song and still in the stadium he emailed us the info below.
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DNCall
Glad Chris Mavor is getting to travel. He has worked in the executive offices for years and plays French horn in the WT orchestra. Really nice guy. It's about time he gets some perks. IMO he's too smart not to have awakened, but like so many, his gig with WT is more appealing than what would be available to him on the outside.
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Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!
by BU2B ini caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .
here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.
"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".
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DNCall
leaving_quietly: To enlarge on Billy's and "Shirley's" comments and quoting from the Bible Examiner article that you cite and link to, the time of trouble being referred to is the great tribulation, not the beginning of the trouble that would mark the "last days."
“. . . If the Gentile Times end in 1914, (and there are many other and clearer evidences pointing to the same time) and we are told that it shall be with fury poured out; a time of trouble such as never was before, nor ever shall be; a day of wrath, etc., . . ." (Emphasis mine.) Athough there is no Scripture citation, the obvious reference is to Matthew 24:21, which the NW renders as "great tribulation." The next verse (22) talks about the salvation of the church, the elect, the anointed on earth. With reference to these the Bible Examiner says: how long before does the church escape? . . . * * * "Brethren, the taking by Christ of His Bride, is evidently, one of the first acts in the Judgment; for judgment must begin at the house of God.” This "taking of . . . His Bride" is the rapture that Russell believed in at the time.
The Bible Examiner is referring to 1914 as beginning the Great Tribulation, the time of judgment, the expiration of the Gentile Nations' lease and their eviction--not the beginning of the troublesome "last days."
The Watchtower study article in question is not technically right. It is intentionally deceptive and revisionist without qualification.
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Good time for R&F to preemptively question GB validity
by irondork inwith the new light in the july 15 watchtower, now might be the perfect time for rank and file members to question wether or not the big boys are who they say they are.
in light of the fact that the men who claim to be the sole channel of communication for all mankind could not even grasp their own identity for the last 100 years, wouldn't now be a good time to turn the tables on the elders who are so quick to drag a questioning dub to the back room and demand loyalty to the governing body?.
wouldn't now be a good time to put the july 15 watchtower in the middle of the table and ask to see the credentials on these men without fear of being suspected of apostacy?
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DNCall
When I was "in," there was a sense of mystery regarding the FDS. You knew the GB was part of the FDS, but there was always the thought that there were other trusted anointed, perhaps a large body of such that they drew upon in providing guidance. Now the mystery has been removed and, as a result, has placed the GB under a microscope. They are now under much more scrutiny by the rank and file than before the "new light." From where I sit, I think they have done more harm to themselves than good. For years now, I have had the belief that they will be their own undoing.
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I have a question for any ex or current elder or co.
by blindnomore in1 how long does the society keep records of publishers diciplinery actions at cong level and at the branch ?.
2 how would you respond to the society's claim that they are not responsible for the criminal actions of the rank and file?.
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DNCall
Welcome Committee Chairman and Theopug.
I knew Merton well. One time, I called the service desk and he answered. I blew through the anominity policy by making him admit his identity!
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I need some serious advice...
by confusedteenager ini'm almost a year out of high school and of course, i'm not in college.
i'm a pioneer (sigh) with little to no work experience and having a really hard time finding any work.
i want to go back to college, but it's going to be difficult now that i'm a pioneer, and my parents cannot really afford the loans that will incur should i pursue going to college.
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DNCall
This would only work if you are really motivated. It is possible to pioneer and attend college. Your parents might support this if you agree to assume a student loan in your name. I know someone who did this and he is now a CPA and a tax attorney. Of course, this is an exceptional case, but you should be aware of this possibility along with all the other good advice you are receiving here.
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A Letter to My Mother :-(
by StinkyPantz2.0 inhi mama, im bridget gaudette, your 34-year-old daughter.
we havent talked much the last dozen or so years.
i know its because i rejected my religious upbringing and you felt you had to choose between god and me.
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DNCall
I hope your mother is proud of you whether she lets you know it or not. She certainly should be. I've never met you, but I'm proud of you!
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"Apostasy took root and flourished" (WT, July 15, 2013, page 18)
by Doug Mason in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].
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[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:6.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; text-align:justify; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"times new roman","serif"; mso-fareast-language:en-us;} </style> <![endif].
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DNCall
The Watchtower has staunchly argued that the Greek Scripture canon was firmly in place by the end of the first century. However, I don't recall any support ever offered to back this up.
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Newbie
by Stubborn Disbeliever ini'm new here, so i thought i'd start with an introduction and summary of my life, for the most part.
i have a tendancy to ramble ridiculously, so bear with me :) and this will be all over the place as thoughts take over the keyboard.. i was born a 5th generation jw.
i never really "felt" it, but was book smart about it.
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DNCall
Hello and welcome! So sorry for what you have been through. Sounds like you have overcome a lot just to be at some level of happiness. I'm glad you're enjoying your kids. Being a good mother is one of the most (if not the most) noble occupations there is.
I think you will enjoy your time here on this board. All the best.
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DNCall
jgnat: According to the WTS there is a separation between Jesus enthronement in 1914 and his "standing up" to judge (Dan. 12). I believe it was in the 1990s that it was "discerned" that he will stand up to judge (i.e., separate the sheep from the goats) during the Great Tribulation.
Starting with his enthronement in 1914, Jesus began cleansing the heavens, culminating in his casting out Satan to the vicinity of the earth by 1918.
Jesus will appear like a flash of lightening at Armageddon, which is projected to occur sometime after the Great Tribulation.
I hope that helps. (It's a strange occupation: trying to make sense out of an erroneous interpretation of a confounding book.)