Posts by UnDisfellowshipped

5

Watchtower says: Jesus has the Nature of God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

reasoning book, page 417:.

philip b. harner said that such clauses as the one in john 1:1, with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning.

they indicate that the logos has the nature of theos.

UnDisfellowshipped

Dinah, please elaborate a little more on what you mean by "dick".

5

Watchtower says: Jesus has the Nature of God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

reasoning book, page 417:.

philip b. harner said that such clauses as the one in john 1:1, with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning.

they indicate that the logos has the nature of theos.

UnDisfellowshipped

RR,

Thanks for your comment.

However, Colossians 2:9, 17-18 says that "All of the fullness of the Nature of God dwells in Christ," and that we should not worship angels because the reality is found in Christ.

Hebrews 1:3 says that Christ is the exact imprint or expression of The Father's essence.

John 1:1 (according to most of the Greek experts) says that Christ has the same nature as God the Father.

Revelation says the angels refuse to be worshiped, but Christ always accepts worship. There must be a reason for this.

John 5:23 says we must honor Christ to the same degree that we honor The Father.

John 1:18 says Christ is the One-of-a-Kind, Unique God who is in the bosom of The Father.

So, no, Jesus is not just "divine" like we will be in heaven. He is much, much more.

19

Questions for JW's

by UnDisfellowshipped in

questions for reniaa and jw's to think about:.

1:) can you explain, using only the bible, why we should believe that today's governing body of jehovah's witnesses is the sole channel of communication between god and mankind?.

2:) can you explain, using only the bible, why we should believe that daniel's prophecy about king nebuchadnezzar's 7 years of insanity has a secondary meaning, and why we should believe that this secondary meaning is pointing toward jesus becoming king in 1914?.

UnDisfellowshipped

Okay, Reniaa, since I posted "too many questions" on this one thread, I've decided to post one at a time. Here's the first one, about the Governing Body: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/177508/1/For-Reniaa-Is-the-Governing-Body-the-Only-Channel-of-Communication-between-God-and-Men

347

Are You Paul or are you Saul?

by reniaa in

jw
friends

this was the same man at different times in his life yet he changed his name because he completely changed his ideals and goals too.

both were extremely zealous, both thought they were doing gods work, both thought they were working for the greater good.. acts 8:3 (new international version)3but saul began to destroy the church.

going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.. soul thought gods work was to destroy the christians but paul.... acts 20: 19i served the lord with great humility and with tears, although i was severely tested by the plots of the jews.

UnDisfellowshipped

Reniaa,

When Saul became Paul, didn't he then try to get people OUT OF the Pharisees religion? Why did he do that? Was he wrong to do that?

What is the difference between Ex-Pharisee Paul trying to get people out of the Pharisees into Christianity and Ex-JW's trying to get JW's out of the Watchtower Society into Christianity?

The Apostle Paul taught the following:

Ephesians 5:10-13 (NWT): Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord; and quit sharing with [them] in the unfruitful works that belong to the darkness, but, rather, even be reproving [them], for the things that take place in secret by them it is shameful even to relate. Now all the things that are being reproved are made manifest by the light, for everything that is being made manifest is light.

Galatians 1:7-9 (NWT): But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 (NWT): Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.

1 Timothy 5:20 (NWT): Reprove before all onlookers persons who practice sin, that the rest also may have fear.

2 Timothy 4:2-4 (NWT): preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teaching. For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories.

Titus 1:9 (NWT): holding firmly to the faithful word as respects his [art of] teaching, that he may be able both to exhort by the teaching that is healthful and to reprove those who contradict.

Titus 1:13-16 (NWT): For this very cause keep on reproving them with severity, that they may be healthy in the faith, paying no attention to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn themselves away from the truth. All things are clean to clean [persons]. But to [persons] defiled and faithless nothing is clean, but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They publicly declare they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort.

So, where does Paul say that it is wrong to publicly reprove those who are teaching false doctrine?

By the way, nowhere does the Bible say that the statement from Gamaliel was inspired or from God.

96

Is the Governing Body the Only Channel of Communication between God and Men?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

let's take my questions one at a time (since you said i had posted too many on my other thread):.

* can you please explain to me, using only the bible, why anyone should believe that today's governing body of jehovah's witnesses (or the "faithful slave class" of the jehovah's witnesses), is the "sole channel of communication" between god and men?.

* in addition, can you explain why we should believe that christ's parable of the "faithful and discreet slave" was predicting a "class" of anointed christians who would give orders to all other christians, instead of simply teaching that faithful christians will be rewarded by christ when he returns?.

UnDisfellowshipped

Let's take my questions one at a time (since you said I had posted too many on my other thread):

* Can you please explain to me, using only the Bible, why anyone should believe that today's Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (or the "Faithful Slave Class" of the Jehovah's Witnesses), is the "Sole Channel of Communication" between God and men?

* In addition, can you explain why we should believe that Christ's parable of the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" was predicting a "class" of anointed Christians who would give orders to all other Christians, instead of simply teaching that faithful Christians will be rewarded by Christ when He returns?

(Any other Jehovah's Witnesses are welcome to answer as well)

Here's an upbuilding quote from the Watchtower:

The Watchtower, October 1, 1994, Page 8:

CHANNEL TO UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE

JESUS assured us that after his death and resurrection, he would raise up a “faithful and discreet slave” that would serve as his channel of communication. (Matthew 24:45-47) The apostle Paul identified this channel to the Ephesian Christians when he wrote that “there might be made known through the congregation the greatly diversified wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose that he formed in connection with the Christ, Jesus our Lord.” (Ephesians 3:10, 11) It was the congregation of anointed Christians, born at Pentecost 33 C.E., that was entrusted with the “things revealed.” (Deuteronomy 29:29) As a group, anointed Christians serve as the faithful and discreet slave. (Luke 12:42-44) Their appointed assignment from God is to provide spiritual understanding of the “things revealed.”

Even as Bible prophecy pointed forward to the Messiah, it also directs us to the close-knit body of anointed Christian Witnesses that now serve as the faithful and discreet slave. It helps us to understand the Word of God. All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave. —John 6:68.

50

JW's and John 5:23

by UnDisfellowshipped in

has anyone on this board ever used john 5:23 when talking to jw's?.

unfortunately, one of my friends is currently in a "bible" study with the jw's (and has been since last year).

i asked my friend to ask the jw what john 5:23 means, so my friend did ask the jw who was conducting the "bible" study.

UnDisfellowshipped

bttt this thread for Reniaa's benefit (as well as for other JW's)

26

Hi, I'd like to introduce myself

by dig692 in

jw
friends

after several months of searching these forums i finally decided to join.

i have to say i feel both nervous and excited at the same time.

but everything i have looked into so far has helped me come to many realizations about the organization so i'm overall very glad to have joined.

UnDisfellowshipped

Hi and Welcome Dig!

If you (and your husband) are still interested in having Bible discussions (without Watchtower Publications), feel free to post any questions on this site, or send a Private Message (PM).

5

Watchtower says: Jesus has the Nature of God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

reasoning book, page 417:.

philip b. harner said that such clauses as the one in john 1:1, with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning.

they indicate that the logos has the nature of theos.

UnDisfellowshipped

Reasoning Book, Page 417:

Philip B. Harner said that such clauses as the one in John 1:1, “with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning. They indicate that the logos has the nature of theos.” He suggests: “Perhaps the clause could be translated, ‘the Word had the same nature as God.’” [...]
--------------

Reasoning Book, Page 419:

The verse would then read, ‘Christ who is God over all, blessed for ever. Amen.’ Even so, Christ would not be equated absolutely with God, but only described as a being of divine nature, for the word theos has no article. . . . The much more probable explanation is that the statement is a doxology directed to God.”—(Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1976), translated from German, Vol. 2, p. 80.
--------------

Reasoning Book, Page 421:

According to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, the·o´tes (the nominative form, from which the·o´te·tos is derived) means “divinity, divine nature.” (Oxford, 1968, p. 792) Being truly “divinity,” or of “divine nature,” does not make Jesus as the Son of God coequal and coeternal with the Father, any more than the fact that all humans share “humanity” or “human nature” makes them coequal or all the same age.

50

Wanted: JW apologist to explain how Michael is Jesus is Michael

by Mad Dawg in

everything jw's teach comes from the bible only.

where in the bible does it say that michael is jesus?.

UnDisfellowshipped

I highly recommend everyone who is interested in this topic to check out this thread I started a few years ago: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/45177/1/Michael-the-Archangel

19

Questions for JW's

by UnDisfellowshipped in

questions for reniaa and jw's to think about:.

1:) can you explain, using only the bible, why we should believe that today's governing body of jehovah's witnesses is the sole channel of communication between god and mankind?.

2:) can you explain, using only the bible, why we should believe that daniel's prophecy about king nebuchadnezzar's 7 years of insanity has a secondary meaning, and why we should believe that this secondary meaning is pointing toward jesus becoming king in 1914?.

UnDisfellowshipped

Questions for Reniaa and JW's to think about:

1:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why we should believe that today's Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the sole channel of communication between God and mankind?

2:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why we should believe that Daniel's prophecy about King Nebuchadnezzar's 7 years of insanity has a secondary meaning, and why we should believe that this secondary meaning is pointing toward Jesus becoming King in 1914?

3:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why we should believe that there are two separate classes of Christians, one class that will live forever on earth, and the other class that will live forever in heaven?

4:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why we should believe that Jesus is the same person as Michael the Archangel?

5:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why we should believe that the number 144,000 in Revelation is a literal number, while all of the other details about the 144,000 are symbolic?

6:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why we should believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses were chosen as God's only people on earth in 1919? (What were they teaching in 1919 that would have made God choose them over all the other religions?)

7:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why we should believe that the Book of Revelation was predicting certain JW Assembly Talks given in the early 20th Century?

8:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why we should believe that the "other sheep" spoken of by Jesus were not simply Gentile believers who would eventually join the Jewish believers?

9:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why it is acceptable to receive blood fractions?

10:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why it is wrong to vote in a political election, but it is a good thing to pay taxes?

11:) Can you explain, using only the Bible, why it is wrong to join the Military (in a non-combative position), while Jesus commanded us to carry a soldier's weapons for two miles?