Posts by Julie

39

'Lost' redux

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

being lost...is of course, the usual state of things here.

what's surprising is that they (the lost) think that pulling scriptures out of context, isolating mosaic laws mean't for one purpose and one time, is somehow refuting scripture.. they like to ignore the fact that jesus is the revealed yahweh and he sets the mark, not any organisation nor any pious individual.

we relate scripture to him and we interpret scripture by his life amongst mankind.

Julie

Rex blathered thus:

I don't need nor desire to be 'credible' to you, Miss Know-it-all. That's just another slant in the debate game.

LOL you are so funny Rex. You have no credibility here with anyone.

:I just hope that some day God wakes you up. Some get awakened, some harden further.
That's what happens, 'lost' behave (and believe) like 'lost' until they finally find their way to God.

Really? What do you know about me that you base your judgement of me being "lost" on?

:You asked for answers and you didn't like my answers, from fundamentalist to liberal, so I tried my best.

Spare me your lies. You "answers" consisted of a bunch of stuff other people wrote justifying wholesale slaughter. Some "answers"!

:Now you seem to persist in slander and exaggeration because I won't cower to your tactics.

How about plain old answering my replies you coward?

:It don't work with me, so you may as well quit.

Another order from you to shut up? Don't you like it Rex that I bring attention to the absurdities attributed to your murderous biblegod? It hurts doesn't it? I do always pity you though in that you are trying to defend the indefensible.

Looking forward to more of your "wisdom"--
Julie

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Julie

Hi Penn--

Don't worry, I have no intention of trying to get into a brawl with you or anything.

:Julie said- Minus the high tech stuff and I see all things that God himself supposedly had "his people" do to others. You are right--not very enlightened and I would expect more from God at least.

:Red Herring!! Red Herring!!!!

I see what you are getting at Penn but I was under the impression that you are of the school of thought that without God there cannot be morality and enlightenment. Perhaps I am mistaken?

:But, come now Julie, let us reason together

Ok, I'm up for reasoning with anyone who is lucid, and you strike me as lucid.

:Well my point was, there is tremendous moral decline in socitey, and gave a few examples. I was wondering how this fits into the 'We are becoming more enlightened' subject, but was not implying that I would be ignoring all of history. I could have given a myriad of examples, I chose one.

I see. I do not think that the school massacres you refer to are as commonplace as they seem. For every kid who has that mindset there are hundreds if not thousands who do not.

:I thought your definition of enlightenment was based on more of a spiritual meaning. Of course we have more information now than we did 100 years ago. Are progressively becoming better? That is where we vary.

Indeed I think we are. There are a lot of people out there who are studying human behavior and why it is what it is. We no longer believe people are "born bad" or that they have "the devil" in them. We realize behaviors are learned and are results of the environment we grow up in. It is slow going, granted, but we are learning. Another thing we have learned that I consider most enlightened is that keeping people in line with fear is not the way to go (especially with children). Fearing God's wrath or a beating from mom or dad is not good "discipline". Learning the consequences of our actions will determine the way things go is much more enlightened than blaming or crediting God with how things are in our lives.

Julie-Though I can see where your "What do you think about the state of the world today....?" approach (which btw, is a commom JW opener too when out schlepping JW mags)

:I am not a JW nor have I ever been one.

I do know this because I saw another post of yours that said so. I was still struck by the similarity of your opener and that of "dubs on the doors".

:People kiiling in the name of Jesus were not obeying the commands of the Bible. They are what the Bible calls hypocrites. Or to put in in a modern vernacular, pretenders. So basically, all the people you point to in discust over Christianity are pretenders and not even Christian in the first place. Jesus said you would know His followers by their love. Hmm, something about killing someone for not converting to Christianity seems to be a bit unloving.

I agree with you Penn, I have never seen anything attributed to Jesus that condoned slaughtering others. I have seen in the NT where it says all scripture is holy though. There is plenty of scripture that instructs believers to slaughter "infidels". I have often thought Christianity would be much more palatable if it didn't include the OT. I find the OT to be completely irreconcilable to a notion/message of peace and love. It is also the picture of unenlightenment. I read secular books on human behavior that are far more enlightened.

:Anyway Julie, I appreciate the conversation, but something tells me that we are not going to change each others views. Feel free to comment though if you like. Have a nice day :) :)

Well thank you Penn, I hope you have a good day/evening too.

I will always contend that people doing things merely for the benefit of the greater good is much more enlightened than those doing things out of fear (or for reward i.e. heaven)of anyone, even their version of God.

Regards--
Julie

P.S. Brigette--you make some good observations. I enjoy your posts.

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Julie

Hi there Penn--

You said:
That is what is called in the world of logical thinking a 'Red Herring'. The topic that I addressed was your statement that we are becoming more enlightened and you changed the subject midsentence and blamed it on mans desire to worship God.

Did I Penn? I don't think that referring to behavior from a few thousand years ago is changing the subject of mankind's enlightenment throughout history.

When I think of history I think of a broader spectrum than a few decades ago and when I think of "mankind" I tend to think beyond the borders of the US.

Anyhoo--yes I am convinced we are becoming more enlightened. We know more about medicine, the human mind, space, science, the beginnings of life on Earth and all manner of things than we ever have and this continues to increase. It's been steady and gradual with many a setback but we keep plugging away.

The majority of people now realize that bad weather and drought are not Divine punishment for their wicked king's ways (or whatever), we do not hope and pray for a cure for someone's illness--we know that if someone is to be cured/healed it will be through medicine.

As to the brutality in the world--it's always been with us but we slowly learn. While we have perfected ways to kill each other from afar surely you don't assert that man's urge to kill others has increased throughout history? If this is the case you are in desperate need of some history lessons and I'll be happy to help if you like.

:Hmm, I was curious, you said that we are becoming more enlightened and I pointed out that in a 50-60 yr period, the problems in one aspect of our society, namely dealing with children, made a 180 degree shift. Back to the original question, if we are reaching this enlightenment, how is it that our major social structures (family, education, relationships) are disinigrating (sp?)?

I do not think that our major social structures are disintergrating. More people are becoming more educated than ever before. According to the latest data from the Census Bureau two parent families are on the rise.

Though I can see where your "What do you think about the state of the world today....?" approach (which btw, is a commom JW opener too when out schlepping JW mags) might lead some to think about the negatives going on I do not. The standard of living in much of the world is better than many ever dreamed and with enough people striving for the greater good will increase.

Of course we will always have to deal with those who behave like the people of the OT times or Crusade times, the all-but-those-who-think-like-we-do-must-die attitude will be hard to eradicate but I like to harbor hope anyway.

Regards--
Julie

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Julie

Hi Penn--

:Here is what they deal with today, in our age of further enlightenment....

Rape, murder, gang violence, drugs, guns, bombs, teen pregnancy, alcohol, abortion, blackmail, metal detectors, and just plain rebellion! Are we really progressing towards enlightenment?

Indeed such things are not very enlightened. Minus the high tech stuff and I see all things that God himself supposedly had "his people" do to others. You are right--not very enlightened and I would expect more from God at least.

:Julie said-While war is not a rarity these days it is much less common than it once was.

:Did you know that there have been over 100 wars since 1940?

Oh yes, I am well aware of this. People today aren't quite as bad though as the people of OT times, according to the bible. How many wars can we count that were ordered/condoned by God? Weren't many of those battles to include total genocide? Indeed, not my idea of enlightened. But the bible gives us fabulous justification for trying to annihilate our enemies, doesn't it? Hardly an example for mankind to follow I'd say.

:Julie said -I do think it is ironic that the bloodiest place on Earth (the middle east) is also considered to be "holy" by countless souls.

:How 'ironic' is it that the Bible says that Jerusalem will be a 'cup of trembling' and a 'burdensome stone' for the entire world. Hmm, strange, written thousands of years ago, some obscure piece of property 1/3 the size of San Bernadino County will be a burden for the WHOLE WORLD! When is the last time in the last 10 years you picked up a newspaper and Israel wasn't being talked about.

Well if you want to explain it away in those terms that is your choice. I see it as closed minded people who are superstitious, uncivilized and totally convinced they are on the side of right while everyone else is not (kinda like JWs). Like thousands of years ago people are still killing each other for much the same reason--their version of God. If anyone could use some enlightenment it is surely these Warriors for God/Allah.

:Something to think about

Boy, I'll say!

Hi Siegswife--

I commend you for asking so many questions, it is obvious you give such issues a great deal of thought. Thinking freely is great, isn't it? Anyway you said:

:If God and Satan don't exist then men are the source of these hateful acts. Regardless of whether they've created dieties to take the rap, the hate comes from them, if there is no other source for it.

Indeed you are right. Mankind is the source for all and those of us who do not believe in the God of the bible realize this and do not blame/credit any other for advances, setbacks. You also asked somewhere about--If the concept of God was created by man, what does that say? (Excellent question btw--here's your answer) When men got together and decided to issue edicts they figured they would carry a lot more weight if the source of this authority was Divine. Therefore "we speak for the Almighty...do as we say or suffer this horrible fate (insert horrible fate here)" . There you have it.

Sure makes a lot more sense than what religion would have us believe.

Take care all--
Julie

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Julie

Hi Penn--

:Julie, would you say that people are moving further from enlightenment in view of the continual moral decline we see in society?

Oh no, not at all. As crazy as this might seem it is quite the opposite. The further back we go in history the more barbaric things are really. One thing that people often say when discussing violence in the OT that they didn't know about is "Those were violent times...". Indeed they were.

While war is not a rarity these days it is much less common than it once was. Most countries are relatively content now with their established territories and there is much less bloodshed over boundry lines and personal squabbles as there used to be. Fewer civil wars over contested thrones and, judging history by the bible, much less genocide.

I do think it is ironic that the bloodiest place on Earth (the middle east) is also considered to be "holy" by countless souls. People have been killing each other that patch of real estate for centuries, no--millenia, basically for religious motives. Most of mankind has moved on. There have been some of the most horrendous deeds committed in the name of religion. Crusades for one, and all the "holy wars" being declared and Freudian slips like "crusade" from our president.

I am quite convinced that "good" is not the offspring of religion. As we become wiser we learn, though it'd be nicer if we could pick up the pace. Religion would keep us from doing that and we'd still be where we were 1000 years ago, IF we'd have let that happen. Good thing we didn't. (What makes it "good" is that it benefits everyone and profits no one.)

Julie

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Julie

Unclepenn said:

:Is right and wrong just part of an evolutionary process?

The topic of morality; where does it originate?

My view is that it comes with enlightenment. When people understand things that benefit the Greater Good benefit the individual they will work toward it.

One example: Killing. Early on, when humans were fewer in number, obviously a main goal was to propagate the species. As intelligence increased it no doubt occured to them that killing each other was counter-productive in achieving this goal. Killing is detrimental to the greater good hence killing is bad.

Enlightenment is the key.

Julie

7

More Trashy Welfare Recipients.......

by LDH in

jw
friends

nope.

1. the big mouth latina wearing the gold door-knocker earrings.

2. the skanky burnt out white chick with no teeth on one side.

Julie

Hi Lisa--

Have a look at the meat industry! You will be sick. Read Fast Food Nation--great book though the author's name escapes me at the moment. You will never feel the same about eating meat again. Not in the US anyways.

It is truly sickening what is going on with Special Interests right now. If people only knew! The most ironic part is that the worst (by far) offenders are the ones who also cry for Morality and Righteousness.

Guess who was in ADM's back pocket for years? Bob I'd-give-anything-to-be-president Dole. Great book--Senator for Sale.

It's gotten to the point that the Special Interests are feeding lines to Senators during debates on the floor. Soon we could cut out the middle-man and just let the Special Interests write the legislation and vote on the bills.

McCain was right when he said the first thing that should have been addressed was campaign finance reform. Who tabled it? Guess.

Good post--
Julie

36

Blood, Watchtower, Deceit, Aretaeus

by hawkaw in

jw
friends

the watchtower provides a comment on the writings of aretaeus in the pamphlet how can blood save your life?

in part 2 - titled blood--vital for life, what of using blood as medicine?

Julie

Wow Hawk--

Well done! Thanks for the lesson. It is amazing some of the medical knowledge that was known back then. Seems the Romans used some techniques being returned into service again these days (i.e. staples not stitches).

I am not surprised to see the deceitful way the WT twisted what this man *really* said. It's the only way they can give credibility to their backwards policies. Very evil of them. Hope many see this.

Julie

9

Ireland - back on your screens for the first time.

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

the nato alliance has pledged support with the us, a terrorist attack against one is an attack against all.. the ira is largely funded by its well honed and sentimental campaigns in the us that generate $100,000s among the 78,000,000 people of irish descent who live there.

this cash is used to train its terrorists in libya and other middle eastern states, establish a network of mafia style activities in ni, including prostitution, protection scams and above all drug trading.

the ira are said to have upward of 200 sleeper cells operating around the world at any one time.. the protestants themselves have little to be proud of either, producing a generation of christian fanatics who have openly discussed the possibility of concentration camps for catholics while turning drive-by shootings into an art form.. what will happen the next time an ira bomb kills a uk soldier, or the uff/uda shoots out some teenagers kneecaps or ankles in the shankill rd?.

Julie

Greetings to All:

Farkel is right to an extent on Henry VIII. While he didn't personally start a new religion (he remained very piously Catholic, "more Catholic than the Pope" I believe the saying goes) but there were rumblings of Reformation around Europe at the time.

Not only did the break with Rome solve that pesky marriage to Katherine problem but boy what a windfall for the royal coffers! I think we can all agree that while ol' Henry didn't change the faith he opened the door that enabled many changes to happen in the next generation. To break with Rome was really something then, only someone with an ego the size of Henry's would have done such (Luther was not much better). Of course many newly enriched nobles were in no hurry for reconcilation with Rome and return of ill-gotten gains.

As to Ireland--I wish they would knock it off for the love of Mike. I mean Protestants and Catholics, for the most part, have quit killing each other long ago. Surely there must be something that can be done, besides violence. That needs to stop.

Hope they get it together before I return to my dad's homeland--
Julie

42

just another religion

by teejay in

jw
friends

patriotism is a religion just like every other religion.

either you believie it and live it or you don't.. i see people waving the flag at sporting events, hear them mouthing the words, "we're all one nation, blah, blah, blah" but then they go out and flip one another off in the parking lot.

just like people at the kingdom hall who supposedly love jehovah (or jesus or allah) and after the meeting is over, they go right back to the way they were.. love of country is no more influential than love of god.

Julie

Greetings to all--

Gopher, you said:

:In what churches do these patriot/religionists assemble? Where is their holy book?

For Americans of course our most sacred document is the Constitution. That's fine by me as it is more enlightened than any "holy book" I've ever read.

I'll take America and her great freedoms any day. Liberty, that word/concept is so hated by many (like religious zealots) but revered by even more. I am one of the "even more".

Julie