The only thing most brainwashed JWs listen to is JW literature w2/15/1994 p3-4 had what should have been a very eye-opening description of what a cult is. It described the WTS to a tee and the next article went on to deny the reality that should be obvious to every JW. The average JW is right out of 1984, in that they brainwash themselves and that is the nastiest type of brainwashing. It's very difficult to get through, because the people don't perceive any problem with their mentality and any attempt to "fix" them only offends them, because you're pointing out a problem they don't admit they have. You're the "unbeliever" or the "apostate", so you're the one who needs fixed. In their minds, outsiders calling JWs a cult is like the pot calling the snowflake "black".
WontLeave
JoinedPosts by WontLeave
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32
Watch "Dr. Phil" on Wednesday
by JimmyPage insubject of the show: "is this a cult?".
i hope they do a good job, my wife watches him every day.. hope steve hassan is a guest..
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The Great Equalization
by WTWizard inyou may have heard of "the great equalization" that is supposed to happen, so no one has "too much" or "too little".
but what exactly does this mean to the witlesses?.
what this very well could end up meaning is that, when coming crises hit, they are going to start hounding the witlesses that prepared well for them to share with those who didn't.
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WontLeave
Communism doesn't work, mostly because people suck. The Pilgrims tried being "good neighbors" and sharing everything. Many starved to death until they decided to own and sell their produce. Since everybody got the same, no matter what they contributed, nobody contributed. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" encourages people to take without giving anything back. In communist countries and socialist programs like the various forms of welfare, it's amazing how many people suddenly have a bad back.
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Have you made MAJOR CHANGES since you started posting here?
by nicolaou ini ask because i've been posting at jwd/jwn for 10 years now.
i was a rapidly fading jw when i started but still considered myself a christian for a good few years more.
now i've embraced reason and rejected faith i'm a very happy atheist and enjoy learning more about the fact of evolution.. what about you?.
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WontLeave
For me, the changes stemmed from reading the Bible and being attacked for it, in my hall. Obeying God, rather than men and not caving or cowering to man-made doctrine and not hiding my contempt for Pharisaic behavior. Being dragged into the back room and "counselled" for speaking the truth (even having the elders admit "you're not wrong, but...") and exercising my God-given, Bible-trained - not WT-trained (1John 4:1) - conscience. Realizing the erroneous interpretation of FDS and "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among YOU and be submissive" didn't allow men to seize control of my mind and heart was the catalyst for the distancing myself from the JW mentality (Pro 14:15). Coming to sites like this was a result, not the cause. I never intended to start any tension between myself and the people I believed were fellow lovers of God and Scripture. They picked the fights with me and attempted to coerce me into denying the Scriptures and the Christ in exchange for their "love" and approval (Mat 23:15). Fortunately, I'm not the typical loser with low self-esteem that most JWs are and didn't need their permission to feel fulfilled. I had the feeling of "Now to me it is a very trivial matter that I should be examined by YOU or by a human tribunal." - 1Cor 4:3
Repeated attempts were made - mostly by Watchtower study conductors, I realized - to force me to preach the literature, but I refused and would only base my ministry on the Bible (Psa 118:8): I made it clear "If the Bible doesn't say it, I won't preach it" (Pro 30:5-6). I quickly came to realize the main doctrine of the JWs is the hierarchy and total submission to men, which they deny exists. All other doctrines are secondary to "You have to believe whatever we tell you." It's impossible to avoid that doctrine, even on things where the Bible remains silent, because the totalitarian control exercised by the Society permeates everything. They have to weigh in on every conceivable detail and have decided there is no such thing as a "conscience matter" anymore (Eph 7:16). They have made hoops to jump through and lines in the sand to pick a side on (Eph 4:14-15), just like the Pharisees; yet they perceive absolutely no correlation. Likewise, Jesus pointed out to the 1st-century Pharisees "Isaiah aptly prophesied about you" and they still refused to see.
Just like the temples and synagogues were God's houses, even though power-hungry attention whores had taken over the leadership, I still attend meetings and consider myself a member. While I stand out like a sore thumb, have been "marked" and all but silenced from the ministry (their version, but the Internet is now my field), I feel I actually belong there. It's the vast majority of the others who I feel don't (Jer 5:29-31), so I'm not leaving. They'll have to throw me out (Isa 66:5, Luke 6:22-23), which I won't be surprised if happens very soon (John 16:1-4).
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My Letter To the Watchtower
by AiAi inthis is an exact copy of my letter to the watchtower.
it never recieved a reply (i did not include 'attn writing committee' in the address however).
please keep in mind that when i wrote this i had just started my intensive research into their beliefs/history, and despite my agressive tone i really did expect a satisfactory answer.
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WontLeave
Nothing they haven't heard 100s of times before, I'm sure. Now someone in Bethel feels "persecuted". If you gave your name and congregation, a copy is now in your file and a JC is forming as we speak. How many Pharisees repented from Jesus calling them out on their lies and hypocrisy? I don't recall any scripture talking about them falling to their knees en masse to beg forgiveness for their transgressions. Instead, they conspired against the messenger. While it may have felt good to take a pot shot at them, I fear it's all striving after the wind.
Jehovah himself points out that only when his enemies are staring their own destruction in the face, "And my anger will certainly come to its finish and I will appease my rage on them and comfort myself; and they will have to know that I myself, Jehovah, have spoken in my insistence on exclusive devotion, when I bring my rage to its finish upon them." - Eze 5:13
They wouldn't listen to the prophets, they wouldn't listen to Jesus, they wouldn't listen to the apostles, and they're not going to listen to you or me or anyone.
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WT Article on Gambling completely dishonost
by Lore inhttp://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_e_20110301.pdf.
in fact, the new catholic encyclopedia.
says that gambling is not considered sinful.
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WontLeave
Gambling, birthdays, oral/anal sex, beards, etc... All Pharisaic rules. I'm sure the Pharisees could come up with scriptures to "prove" their ceremonial hand washing they confronted Jesus with. The Jewish law to not boil a kid in its mother's milk has been interpreted to mean eating meat and dairy in the same meal isn't kosher. When someone shows you a scripture and then goes on to tell you "what this means is..." hold on to your hat, because it's going to get dogmatic. Extrapolating scriptures to cover circumstances far outside of their context is a very iffy endeavor and there are several scriptures that warn against trying to bind others' consciences with our own personal standards and interpretations.
On another note, I wouldn't use Samson's personal life as any example to be followed. He also frequented brothels and really seemed to be a douche, if you read about him. A lot of the guys in Judges were pretty awful, which is probably why the book ends with the disclaimer: "In those days there was no king in Israel. What was right in his own eyes was what each one was accustomed to do."
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My First Post on JWN- Hello!
by Philadelphia Ponos ini'll give some background information before i introduce myself.
i faded from the organization three and a half years ago.
i have no family members who are jws and haven't thought about this religion at all over the past three and half years.
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WontLeave
so I can develop a skill that isn't available to me in the secular world
You're trying to learn how to brainwash people into submission to a cult? You're trying to learn how to suppress your thoughts and brainwash yourself, ala 1984? You're trying to learn how to stand in front of a room of slack-jawed retards and regurgitate tripe from literature written on a 4th-grade reading level? You're trying to learn how to knock on people's doors and present a bait-and-switch message of Bible education then give them Watchtower dogma instead?
If you want some insight on how to start a cult or run some other sort of con, this might be one way to go. But you're going to have to deal with a bunch of sociopaths and busybodies who will be scrutinizing you constantly for something to complain about. If you're not in it 100% and drinking the Kool-Aid or willing to constantly live a lie around them, you're going to be miserable.
If you're going to be there anyway, you might as well grab a girl. While they're not as slutty as most women (better odds of no STDs and no kids), they're not the prudes (at least in my experience) that they pretend to be. Because of the lack of JW men, you can marry up and she might be nice and 'submissive', if she's been indoctrinated enough.
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C.T. Russell and the Bible Students blessed and used by God?
by WontLeave inthere is no question that the first president of this corporation, c. t. russell, was used mightily by jehovah during the period when basic bible truths were being restored among gods true worshipers on earth.
we have great love for brother charles t. russell, for his works sake, and that we gladly acknowledge that the lord used him and greatly blessed his work - ka p239, jv p155, others (rutherford's speech announcing the adoption of the name jehovah's witnesses).
at their regular gatherings during the years 1870 to 1875, the religious thinking of these men underwent profound changes.
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WontLeave
There is no question that the first president of this corporation, C. T. Russell, was used mightily by Jehovah during the period when basic Bible truths were being restored among God’s true worshipers on earth. - w1/1/1977
we have great love for Brother Charles T. Russell, for his work’s sake, and that we gladly acknowledge that the Lord used him and greatly blessed his work - ka p239, jv p155, others (Rutherford's speech announcing the adoption of the name Jehovah's Witnesses)
At their regular gatherings during the years 1870 to 1875, the religious thinking of these men underwent profound changes. With the passing of time, Jehovah blessed them with increasing spiritual light and truth. - yearbook 1975 p36
the majority of Bible Students knew that their work was not dependent upon one man. It was Jehovah’s work, directed by his holy spirit. - w7/1/1973
Judging by the results, there can be no doubt that Jehovah’s holy spirit was directing the endeavors of Brother Russell and those associated with him. - w5/15/1995
I'm sure there are many, many more...
Why would God be blessing the efforts of a group that wouldn't be identified as "faithful and discreet" until years later? According to JW doctrine, Jesus identified the FDS in 1918, and set them (still trying to figure out through the various convoluted identities of the FDS who it is: The WTS president, all earthly remnant, the GB, the writing committee...) "over all his belongings" in 1919. Russell died in 1916, before this happened. Sure, an individual can pray for insight and "power beyond what is normal" to preach, but these excerpts are obviously claiming God's active participation in their organizational effort, even though a time had been set for that separation to take place and according to JW doctrine, that time hadn't come yet.
I've had discussions with my studies about faith healing, praying for world peace, God intervening on our individual behalf, etc. My understanding of the scriptures is that God has a time already set to cure the world's ills, so he's not going to run around putting out the fires in Satan's system. That would defeat the purpose of allowing Satan to run the world into the ground and undermine his own patience. Likewise, what would be the point in setting a time (1918) for Jesus to identify the FDS, if God's just going to jump in early to identify and assist them in the latter part of the 19th century?
When they dropped the 1874 date in favor of 1914, they lost 40 years of being the FDS. Did they not realize that, hoped nobody would notice, or just figured they needed the new date badly enough to sacrifice those years since they were already passed? "Okay, maybe Russell wasn't over all Jesus' belongings, but we are"? The moving dates keep robbing Peter to pay Paul, theologically, but they're robbing from the past to buy more time and power in the future. Perhaps they figure the only people who would be alienated are dead or so old and indoctrinate or just too tired to make a change that they won't go anywhere. Old "new light" that people used to have to believe changing to new "new light" works pretty much the same way. But, at least as late as 1995 they say Russell and his followers were God's pawns. How can they have it both ways? Am I being nitpicky and starting "debates about words" or is this a glaring incongruity that no amount of mental contortions could possibly explain?
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my story, would like some advice
by deservingone26 inim looking for some advice.. so i grew up as a witness was baptized when i was seventeen, which by the way i was pushed into baptizm cuse my parents kept asking me when i was and threatned to not buy me a car if i didnt get baptized.
since it was never in my heart i was never very dedicated and was disfellowshipped by nineteen i started the process of coming back but after bout four months i moved out.
i started partying alot mainly with my other disfellowshipped friends and nonactive jw frien, we were drinking alot and smoking weed but soon i started feeling the need to go back so i started up at the meetings but i got bored and went back to my old ways, this has been what i have been doing for the last five years, partying getting drunk and drugs and then stopping and going back to the meetings for a couple months, the same process for last the last almost five years.
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WontLeave
If you have family who are in and they are "good JWs", you can never have a normal relationship with them. Every time you talk to them it will be "Have you been going to the meetings?" "We didn't see you at the convention." "You going in service?" "You trying to become a MS?" And that's only if they're not the prying, backstabbing, snoopy kind who will contact your JW friends and try to manipulate information out of them.
I'm in and my parents are in, but I refuse to talk to them, because the only reason brainwashed, crazy JWs talk to rational ones is to try build a case against them. Be very cautious of elders calling to chat, relatives calling to chat, acquaintances from the Hall calling to chat... It's probably going to degrade into an inquisition under the false premise of "I'm just worried about you". Anything said in a conversation that includes the phrase "I'm just worried about you" is probably being relayed to the elders, possibly after being paraphrased into something other than what you said. Idle hands are the Devil's workshop and JWs are some very bored people. Just for some entertainment, they will throw their own friends and family to the wolves.
I came back in spite of the people, because they suck. I realized the doctrine was closer to the Bible than anything else, even though the attitudes of most of the people were about as far away from Christian as possible. If you're coming back for the people, you're making a big mistake. If you're coming back for the occasional gem of truth, it's not going to be easy. God's house has been taken over by Pharisees, so if you belong in God's house, they're going to hate you. If you're a Pharisee, you'll get along fine.
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Dumbing Down
by Band on the Run inmy perception after observing this site for a short time is that posters here are much better informed and articulate than the witnesses i encountered.
growing up there were contradictory messages.
in fact, my grades were a witness than jws were better than my school peers.
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WontLeave
I've often said: You know what they call an intelligent or educated JW? An "apostate".
There's a reason the Society wants you ignorant and it's the same reason government does: The more you can rely on yourself, the less you need them. If you know your Bible, you don't buy into any ridiculous thing the literature says. (Pro 14:15, Eph 4:14) If you know their past, you know they have a long history of being wrong and lying about it. So, they don't want you reading anything they didn't write, going to college, researching online, talking to anyone where you're not trying to preach to them.
They actually use the last one to deny the fact they are separatists and elitists: "We talk to non-JW people all the time... at their doors." They understand the mode presenting one's self as "teacher" puts someone in, especially if that one has low self-esteem and really desires to be perceived as someone who knows something. That is why when the losers in cheap suits encounter any resistance or anyone who knows anything about the Bible, they have all kinds of nasty things to say about them when they get back to the car. They present themselves as just trying to have a discussion with their "neighbors" about "current events" or some other such ruse. But they don't want a conversation, even though they're trained to patiently wait for answers to the questions they're told to ask. In reality, they're just waiting for their turn to talk; they want to lecture. Someone in this frame of mind has very little risk of being persuaded of anything, as their minds are closed; they're not even listening.
Once, we were in a territory an "apostate" lived in. He didn't ask to be on the "Do not call" list, but they wouldn't call on him, out of fear. I said I would, as I'd pretty much already heard anything he'd probably have to say. I argued we meet apostates at nearly every door, since they were taught by "Christendom" and many try to read scriptures at us in defense of their beliefs or in an attempt to fulfill their Christian duty of preaching to us. This view wasn't warmly received, which I thought was odd: "know that he who turns a sinner back from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." - James 5:19
I've seen elders having what I saw as great conversations at the door, full of opportunities to show scriptures about that exact subject, cut them short - badmouthing the householder all the way back to the car - because they wouldn't shut up and listen. Actually, it was because the conversation was going into areas the elders obviously knew nothing about. When I preach, I like to work alone, because I'm so often embarrassed by the stupid and ignorant things other JWs say. Every door I don't take, I cringe at what kind of retarded garbage is going to come flying out of their mouths, making us all look like a cult of buffoons.
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Facebook: Local Ruling By Elders in Nearby Congregation
by mentallyfree31 injust heard from a friend that a nearby body of elders in their congregation have decided that anybody who is on facebook will not be able to have privleges in their congregation.. hilarious!.
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WontLeave
I personally know those who have been directly told not to have online social networking accounts in various halls. I've experienced gasps of disapproval in a new hall for having them, myself. This is hall-by-hall and very inconsistently enforced even within the halls where it's banned. Elders don't police each other (or their kids) as cops don't write each other tickets. When arbitrary rules are made up for arbitrary reasons, it's not very astonishing to see them enforced arbitrarily.
Generally, old people who are totally out of touch fear and don't understand anything new. And what are elders? Very out-of-touch people who have grown old and more out of touch. Also, jealous, broke losers hate other people (especially if they're younger) having things they can't afford. So, show a loser in a cheap suit who never went to college and works part time for a greedy JW who won't pay anything (because he's "putting the kingdom first") a 10-year-old with a computer, blackberry, X-Box, TV, and stereo in his room and that old, uneducated, barely-employable moron is going to find everything wrong with it he can possibly come up with. Now, give that angry, jealous, unfulfilled, bitter, broke, ignorant 5-alarm screw-up some authority over other people...