WontLeave

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Posts by WontLeave

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  9

  Wanted 2 or 3 Proof Readers (bible believers preferred)

  by lovelylil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this year for the memorial, the ministry group i started called "the kings table", here in weymouth ma will be handing out a one page flyer entitled the watchtower society and the memorial of christ's death.

  we will also be posting them close to all the kh's in this area.. this flyer will give thinking jw's the christian perspective on the way the wt holds its services and includes scriptural references.. i am in need of a few people willing to proof read this flyer for me, as well as look up the cited scriptural texts to make sure there are no mistakes.

  also needed is feedback on the simplicity of the flyer for a jehovah's witness to understand.

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  WontLeave

  Can't you just post a pdf to google docs, then share the URL here for anyone to look over?

  Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed. - Prov 15:22 (NIV)
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  20

  Everything feels broken

  by Sapphy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all - beware, long post comming up!.

  i've always been a person who 'needed to know'.

  as a born in i felt incredibly lucky that my parents and grandparents had found 'the truth' - no need to struggle to 'break free from babylon's bondage' for me!

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  WontLeave

  Many people here crave you believe just as they do every bit as much as when they were pounding on doors. Their beliefs may have changed, but the insecurity that requires others share their beliefs to validate them remains. The search for truth is a difficult one, especially if you're trying to make it fit with a preconceived goal.

  My personal opinion is, I have no dog in the race. The "holy" books aren't mine and neither are the science (true or pseudo) books, so I won't be offended whichever someone choses to believe. But you asked as "a person who needed to know" and that's commendable. It definitely beats creating your perception then seeking evidence for that end, which is what most people do. Your journey is your own, but I'll share my method of travel and you can perhaps glean something helpful from it:

  I read everything, but believe nothing until I can see a bigger picture. As soon as I sense an agenda or specious evidence that's pretty obviously used with full knowledge of the presenter that it's spin, I suspect everything they say and require more than the usual proof of subsequent statements. That's why I don't trust the Watchtower: I've caught them too many times taking liberties with the Scriptures and playing fast and loose with facts. Many sources I've researched have gone into my "BS until proven otherwise" pile on this very basis.

  Agenda is actually one of the main reasons I believe the Bible is inspired of God, while minor details may have been altered by activist priests and scribes throughout the centuries. If there is a God, he wouldn't allow his Word to become so tainted the truth couldn't be gleaned from it by someone with an honest mind and heart. If the whole thing is a lie and there is no God, then why all the different churches teaching a different doctrine about the same original lie? Basically, why compound lying about a lie?

  While there are a few Muslim, Buddhist, and Jewish sects, they are nearly identical in doctrine to one another. Meanwhile, David Barrett's research discovered 33,830 "Christian" denominations. It seems to me something or someone has made a concentrated effort to confuse Christianity to the point of ridiculousness, while the other major religions have merely split along a few geographic lines or followed the idiosyncrasies of dynamic leaders, while never straying far from original orthodoxy. Why the Catholic Church turning orthodoxy on its ear then engaging in ghastly tactics to enforce it? Why the secrecy of the Bible and the seizure of all doctrinal authority by the Popes? Muslims are supposed to memorize as much of the Q'ran as possible and Jews are supposed to read regularly from the Torah, but the Church did everything it could to keep people from reading the Bible.

  Why can so many people look right at Bible verses that are as plain as day and see something completely different than what the words say? What causes them to be stricken blind when dealing with the Bible, when other books don't seem to be affected this way? It was this confusion and blindness that caused me to believe the Bible was more than just a book of fairy tales and some sinister force was trying to negate the effect it has in people's lives. There is no reason to confuse the understanding of the Q'ran, Book of Mormon, Tripitaka, beyond what is natural and human, since they don't lead to truth or salvation, in my opinion. I read them nonetheless, just for due diligence (well, not the Tripitaka, because it's insanely enormous and doesn't even claim to answer my questions).
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  81

  A roaring current of change.... Is The Watchtower in the process of a major overhaul of their religion?

  by koolaid-man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a roaring current of change..... what is going on at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses?

  in the last couple of years unprecedented changes in policy, procedure, and doctrine have been coming forth in rapid fire sequence.

  this uninterrupted episode of new information is beginning to backfire for the rank and file witnesses.

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  WontLeave

  While occasionally sources for interesting tidbits, Rick and e-Watchman seem to each have their own messiah complexes. I think they're just jealous the GB gets 7M followers and they only get a few, in comparison. At least e-Watchman has a solid, stated doctrine, whereas Rick will take any support from anyone who hates JWs for any reason - real or imagined. He has some very strange bedfellows who are just as bizarre and incredible as anything the GB has ever said or done. I'm not defending the WTBTS, but blind rage is still blindness.
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  47

  Blind Allegiance to G.B. supported by scripture?

  by honorsthesis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey everyone,.

  i have been getting in on going debates with brothers in the congregation about the role of the governing body.

  i feel that jehovah would not want us to blindly follow a particular g.b.

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  WontLeave

  Personally, I love when they use Moses as an example of the GB. It demonstrates beyond any doubt how they can look right at Jesus' words and then spit on them. They love to apply Bible examples to everyone except themselves. Somehow, they are exempt from all lessons to be learned.

  The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. - Mat 23:2

  The Pharisees tried the same thing, touting their position, invoking some other historical figure, but John the Baptist and Jesus dismissed that.

  and do not presume to say to yourselves, "As a father we have Abraham." - John 3:9

  The GB love to perform mental gymnastics to shoehorn in some Bible "evidence" of their unquestionable authority. But, when clear, point-for-point descriptions of the Pharisees fit them like a glove, suddenly they don't see any correlation. Lately, I've been thinking about how they use the doctrine of JWs to establish their authority (since the 607 BCE + Daniel's prophesy thing clearly doesn't work - see my timetable). I know many here have come to believe the Trinity and other "mainstream" church teachings and I'm not going to get into all that, because those arguments have been made for hundreds of years, already.

  Personally, I believe JW doctrine to be the most sound of any denomination, but Jesus didn't argue doctrine with the Pharisees. The only mention of anything doctrinal, that I recall, was the Resurrection, with the Sadducees. Everything else was policy, which is exactly what the GB keeps failing on, over and over again. They set up hoops and draw lines in the sand, then demand we conform to the standards they set. Even the 1914 "generation" thing; what difference does it make? Being a Christian doesn't have an expiration date, so the GB can set up all the false dates they want and that shouldn't affect us.

  But, they require it does! They demand we preach their falsehoods and believe their delusions. The back-room Inquisitions call "heresy" at anyone not towing the current party line. Therein lies the problem, because "The error of the inquirer will prove to be just the same as the error of the prophet" (Eze 14:10) and "If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit" (Mat 15:14). I refuse to share the blood guilt and will not preach things I know to be questionable or false.

  It's each person's responsibility to educate him/herself, so as not to be someone else's blind follower (Eph 4:15-15). If we ignore the repeated warnings from the Bible to not allow our consciences to be enslaved to men, there will be no sympathy for us (Jer 17:5). Even the GB itself has pointed out all the evidence we need, to avoid submitting to human rule of the congregation, in their own literature. They've brought up the subject of the Pharisees many times. Even in recent WT articles where they promote idolatry - worship of the WTBTS and unquestioning devotion to the GB - they begin the articles with sound Scriptural instruction to reject human leadership. It's as though, somehow (by Jehovah's Holy Spirit, perhaps) they are compelled to tell the truth, even when they're about to lie. And their blinded minds don't even realize they give themselves away to anyone who is willing to see it.
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  40

  My article on Russia's ban of JW's

  by honorsthesis in

  1. social
  2. current

  i am a columinst for cornell university's "the diplomacist".

  i recently wrote an article on the various troubles jehovah's witnesses are facing in russia.

  i try to make the point that, even if you do not support the witnesses (and most don't) you should support freedom of thought, expression and religion.. if you are interested in checking it out, here it is: "snuffing out religious freedom in russia".

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  WontLeave

  Just hold the Russian government to oft-documented JW standards:

  • Believe or speak something we don't tell you to, we punish you or throw you out.
  • JW kids aren't permitted to receive higher education, relegating them to the lower-class.
  • Behave, talk, or look differently, then everybody around you will conspire against you.
  • Try to teach something that's not accepted as orthodox and nobody is allowed to listen to you.
  • Encourage everyone around JWs to spy on them, constantly vigilant for something to report on.
  • Force dissenters from the currently-accepted ideology into secrecy, having to practice their beliefs underground.
  • Demand total unity and unwavering submission to party ideals.
  • Allow propaganda and outright lies against any who refuse to conform, pinning them with pejorative titles.

  Oh, wait... That's exactly what's going on, already.
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  18

  It's About Time Something Was Done.....

  by Sam Whiskey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the toughest anti-illegal-immigrant measure in a generation passed the arizona legislature this week.

  if signed, as expected, by republican governor jan brewer, the law will give local police sweeping new powers in regard to undocumented workers.

  currently, immigration offenses are violations of federal, not state, law, and local police officers only can inquire about a person's immigration status if that person is suspected of another crime.

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  WontLeave

  Oh, great... Here come the "The Bible supports my political party" arguments. These are always entertaining. The proverbial pots calling the kettles black. Jesus argued against Bet Hillel and Bet Shammai, which were respectively uber conservative and uber liberal. Many here already fell for the false dichotomy of "We can prove other religions are wrong, so we must be right on everything" argument from JWs and now you're doing it with your political parties. Republican and Democrat are just 2 more cults you've been suckered into. "Third-party" or "Independent" parties might seem like the best of the bad, but they're not the answer and will just become corrupted with power and popularity. Getting into politics is like trying to polish a turd (even though Myth Busters managed to do just that).

  The morsel of truth that brought most of us into JWs is that only God's kingdom can fix things. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you have given up on God's kingdom, then you have no hope for mankind and all is vanity and a striving after the wind. Obsessing over false solutions will just frustrate you and distract you from real solutions. That's what the purpose of false religion and politics is - Satan's tools of distraction to keep you so active in the movement that you never stop to think whether it really is the truth or the answer. And if you do believe in God's kingdom, why even try to slow the decline of society when you know God will step in once things deteriorate enough? You'd just be attempting to delay the inevitable and prolong the misery.
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  54

  Do you think a lot of JWs are ashamed of their beliefs?

  by I quit! in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the reason i asked this is because i'm going to the funeral of a man who wasn't a jw.

  my mother-in-law has lived in the same neighborhood as him for years and knows his wife.

  i asked her if she was going attend the funeral service.

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  WontLeave

  It's been my experience JWs can't prove their beliefs if their lives depended on it. Following the crowd is the only reason they do any of it. Most JWs have absolutely no reason to believe any of it, other than some article or some guy told them that's what they're supposed to believe. They tow the party line, because they're horrified of the people around them. Put them in another circle of influence and they're horrified of those people and follow that crowd. That's why so many JWs live "double lives"; because their entire existence is about fear of men. Almost all suck at public speaking because of fear of men, suck at the door because of fear of men, hide their beliefs because of fear of men, act like "good Witnesses" around JWs because of fear of men. So many JWs do or don't do things just because of what someone at the Hall might find out. Of course, they're terrified to go into a church, movie, adult novelty shop, etc.: What if it gets back to the elders?

  They knock on doors because of fear for the elders counting the time, then stumble over their nonsensical presentations because of fear for the householders. Nothing they do is based on confidence in God, Christ, or their doctrine. Nothing is done for positive reasons, only out of fear for negative ones.
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  80

  What is it with all the men waking up but the wives stay in? Why is it the opposite for me?

  by Cadellin in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this is something i've thought about for a while now.

  it seems like the same story on this board over and over--the husband, who also might be an elder, ms, etc.--starts having doubts and researching, aka miseryloveselders and franklin massey and others.

  he starts to smell the coffee and realizes that this organization isn't what it claims to be.

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  WontLeave

  Women are always more susceptible to cults, as emotional control tends to work more and they are less likely to question. A male mind is more analytical and he's more likely to wonder by what authority is some other dude ordering him around. Of course, women aren't allowed any level of authority in the congregation, so they'll never be privy to the inner workings, except from a disgruntled (or blabbermouth) husband. Knowledge and curiosity are the enemies of cult mind control, whereas emotional blackmail is the bread and butter. It's my experience, the JW women might know JW doctrine inside and out, but have absolutely no idea how to present or defend it scripturally, always having to resort to shoving a WT article at any question. Men have prepared talks and are expected to be the spiritual providers for their families and congregations. Men also have more of a tendency to want to know the whys of a doctrine.

  All this being said, people are individuals and your mileage may vary.
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  21

  Brother tells 10 year old daughter of study she can't pray while he's there

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this old brother and his wife are concluding a study with a single mother and her 10 year old daughter.

  he says, "let's thank jehovah".

  the girl asks meekly, "can i thank jehovah"?

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  WontLeave

  I think I've mentioned this before, but it's appropriate here. An elder made some snide comment about a picture collage in the WT last year where a man is met in door-to-door, starts studying, shaves off his beard, starts preaching, then gets baptized. His comment was about how we can see his spiritual growth, because he shaved off his beard. Right behind him, sat somebody's study who was attending the hall for the first time (first time I'd seen him and I was at every meeting). He had a full beard. First and last meeting.
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  62

  Abusive Women and manipulation

  by Lady Lee in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the other day we were talking about abusive mothers (toxic relationships).

  i was sent this link today and think it is worth sharing.

  i think it is an excellent article.

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  WontLeave

  A good book to read about relationships with toxic women is That Bitch (US title: Venus - The Dark Side). The main focus is on marriage/romantic relationships, but once a personality disorder is identified, it's easy to see it play out in other interactions. The manipulation of family and friends becomes obvious. Actions and words once completely inexplicable suddenly fall into place, when motivations are realized. It talks about the various personality disorders Western societies let women get away with, because of the scorched-earth attack of feminism, where women are default victims. Not to downplay male abusers, but what male abusers do is illegal; the law and society crucify them (here and now). Women with narcissistic personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder (sociopaths), etc. play the legal system like a fiddle to wreak further damage on men who have suffered at their hands for years. Divorce courts eagerly take the man's children, house, car, money and the police whisk him away to jail for made-up domestic violence charges after enduring lying, cheating, humiliation, character assassination, emotional torture, manipulation, gold-digging, etc. for the entire relationship.