i thought i knew you.
an open letter from barbara anderson to watch towers writing department.
in 1517, martin luther wrote in a letter to archbishop albert of mainz: you must graciously forgive that i, that scum of the earth, am so bold as to dare to address a letter to you.. yes, i know, you think of me as scum, just like mainz believed of luther, wondering how i dare write you a letter, someone jehovahs witnesses disfellowshipped back in 2002. i was accused of being an unrepentant sinner and condemned for causing divisions, then labeled apostate because i spoke out publicly on nbcs dateline tv program aboutthe child sexual abuse policies that protected pedophiles policies that you helped formulate.
Celestrial sair =
(Barbara) "and thus assaulted individuals that implemented instruction from the governing body using twisted logic and outright lies."
Are you saying that individual JWs used twisted logic and outright lies to implement instructions from the GB or that Barbara attacked individual JWs who were following GB instructions by using twisted logic and outright lies?
If it is the latter could you explain the lies she told?
i don't know where to start.
hoping to find a place to ventilate my feelings of long period... language is a barrier as english is not my primary language, i will still give it a try.. baptized in 2000, the message they brought to me was the end of world that everyone were talking to at that eve of millennium... i believed and started reading my first book, my bible story, for consecutive 10 hours.
during the bible study, the bible instructor told me he suspected i had some form of mental disorder, and later was diagnosed as schizophrenia.
Hi Fliermate, your english is good and it is easy to understand what you are saying.
I am from Australia and have been travelling to the Asian countries several times a year for the past few years. I will soon be going to Singapore for a week.
I've been to Malaysia a few times, this includes Kuala Lumpur, Malacca and Penang. It is a beautiful country and the people are really lovely. It would be nice to have a longer trip and travel all around, but that will hopefully be for the future. A couple of years ago I saw an elderly gentleman offering Watchtower magazines to passerbyes.
I have been to Bali and do not want to visit there again. I watched a cultural song and dance and became very sad during it, I wanted to get out of there and couldn't stop crying during the ceremony, I felt the evil spirits there. I was with my family and none of them felt the same. I thought I was just being freekish and I was speaking to my brother-in-law who had seen the same 'show'. He said he knew exactly how I felt because he thought the same thing.
My brother has married a lady from the Phillipines and the stories she has to say about the evil spirits that are there is horrible. She says the problem is getting worse, although she hadn't experienced anything herself she has heard many stories firsthand. It is no surprise really because there are religions that are very spiritual and it is not God whom they worship and there are many religious activities that take place, which I personally believe has the result of inviting Satan or his devils into their space. Please be careful here. I don't know that an elder from another country would really understand but if you do run into a problem you can rest assured that by praying to God about this and asking for his help he will do so, you don't need someone to do it for you. Your trust and reliance in God is what you need.
I very much agree with you about their interpretation of Revelation and in some places it is just ridiculous. They are always 'refining' their understanding of it but they have a long way to go. I think their main problem is that they consider much of Revelations prophecies to already having been fulfilled since 1914 and this blinds them to even consider that they are still to be fulfilled in the future.
Nice to have you on this forum.
indeed thats just what witnesses are.
everyone hates them.
is there any other group in "christendom "that are hated as much as these.?
Celestial, I can appreciate your annoyance with some of the comments on this forum and you will notice that there are many others that are too. Often unsubstantiated claims are questioned which is refreshing. There is nothing stopping you from expressing your opinion in those threads and as long as you are reasonable and put forth a realistic response they are always appreciated.
I guess it is a matter of understanding what the motive is behind a post being made. Being a JW has impacted on many people in a very negative way, on this forum you often see the aftermath of that.
It is often very hard to understand what someone is really saying or at times can expose behaviour that is really not acceptable. You have done this yourself, take these comments of yours, for instance -
I've come across an occasional congregation member that was a mooch (they're flagged and avoided), but I've always known congregation members to be hard working and self-sufficient.
Is that really proper christian behaviour to 'flag and avoid' someone within your own family-like congregation just because they have a habit of trying to 'mooch' on other member? These are members that need a lot of encouragement and direction to help them stand on their own two feet, they can be included as ones needing a lot of help rather than the opposite.
The problem of crime within the congregation, hidden or exposed substantiates the disfellowshipping arrangement although this thread depicts the disfellowshipping arrangement as a precursor to suicide
This comment is not very clear. If a crime is hidden then there can be no disfellowshipping.
The disfellowshipping arrangement includes being cut off from not only friends, but also family. The punishment is also given to individuals, at times, that a truelly repentant but because it is not apparent to the elders or for other reasons (such as an extended period of sinning) they are still punished. Not only that and just these things can be horrendous but they are treated as if they have been cut off from God himself and cannot possibly return to having a good relationship with him until they meet the strict rules and works that the elders stipulate, even though most of that is supported in the bible. If you don't think this can lead someone to suicide then that is a very strange opinion.
You may be right in that a person committing a crime should be disfellowshipped but you go further in saying that it substantiates the disfellowshipping arrangement. It certainly does not as the some of these 'crimes' my be quite minor or not supported biblically. The 'arrangement' can also result in punishment that in no way befits the offence.
You are always going to find some posts that exagerate things or are straight out lies and therefore it is always good to keep a balanced view. Personally I find this forum has given me the opportunity of understanding, to a far greater degree, what the bible really teaches.
I am sorry to hear of your depression and hope that you can work through it.
indeed thats just what witnesses are.
everyone hates them.
is there any other group in "christendom "that are hated as much as these.?
Just consider what you are writing, are they your thoughts or the thoughts of the GB? As an example, why do you believe that the JWs are not part of Christendom? Basically because the JW says so and their meaning of Christendom is very different to the dictionary meaning. If they are going to twist such a simple word to mean something completely different to what it really means, how can they be trusted to believe anything? Could you please explain to me what Christendom is?
JWs are not the only ones that believe in God's Kingdom, that is a lie.
As for preaching, there is nothing in the bible that says a christian must go from door to door. There are many christians that are doing a fine job of preaching both by talking to others and more importantly, by endeavouring to live their lives in accordance with God's will. Counting hours for 'field work' is a very strange requirement and goes beyond any bible instruction.
Regading hatred, I see very few posters on this forum who hate JWs, there are many who hate the actions of the GB but where is the persecution?
so there i was at the circuit assembly sunday morning with my eyes glazed over as usual when all of a sudden, bam!
a demo with two brothers talking about the new overlapping generation teaching.
the reason it took me by surprise was because it occured during the second talk of the sunday morning symposium, "sanctify god's name by your speech".
They have assumed that 'generation' and 'passed away' refers to people's lives but is this correct?
The scripture states 'this generation will not pass away until all these things have occurred'
It cannot be overlapping generations because Jesus said THIS generation.
It could never have referred to people because according to the JWs there will be survivors after Armageddon but the scripture states that these people would pass away (although not until the signs had occurred). There may be many that die at Armageddon but there will be some who do not making this scripture irrelevant to a generation of people.
There is an interesting post on another forum (e-jehovahswitnesses) that says it is important to look at the meaning of the original greek word for generation. The poster said that it can refer to 'an age' or period of time and that when you look at the context it makes sense that it refers to the period of time in which the signs occur. Therefore it could be seen that Jesus was reconfirming that all the signs would certainly occur in an identifiable age/era/period of time/generation and it was not until all these things occurred with certainty that there would be an end to it.
It is a simple explanation and does not conflict with the meaning of the wicked generation of Noah's day. I think this posters views have a lot of credibility and if the GB had thought of it they wouldn't be in such a mess.
i remember reading an excerpt of a court case recently wherein a gb member was being questioned by a counselor in a court case.
one of the questions was on the topic of "unpardonable sins".
the gb member was asked by the legal counsel if there was a transgression that would disfellowship a member of the congregation whereupon they would not be allowed to be reinstated.
I don't know that the JWs have given a clear understanding on this but there is an article dealing, to some extent, with this issue in the Watchtower 15th July, 2007 titled "Have you sinned against the holy spirit?"
This link provides the contents of that article as well as a few other comments
this is weird?!
i just came accross this on mr unthank's personal site: http://stevenunthank.wordpress.com/monies/i recently read something where the wts is, let's just say connected, to various institutions/companies to wield/get their way.....is this one or just coincidence?
moniespersonal message from steven unthank.
Personally I don't like PayPal at all. I opened an account with them approving deposits only and transfers to my personal bank account. Several months later they sent several emails stating that I would need to approve further authorities on my account, in particular, to allow transfers from my personal account to PayPal. I didn't agree with this and sent several emails to them stating that I would not give this approval. They would not respond to any of my emails so I sent them several emails asking them to close my account, they ignored them also. So I no longer use them and will not in the future. There was a stage when fake emails were being sent out that looked like they were from PayPal so I made sure that any emails to them were using the correct email address. I felt powerless, having dozens of emails totally ignored and makes me very suspicious of them.
Dealing with Paypal is not like dealing with an ordinary Australian Bank.
In Australia there is a lot of competition between the banks and they have improved greatly on the service they provide. The call centres aren't always that helpful (because they are not knowledgeable and are restricted to some degree). The staff at the branches are very good and know how to get to the bottom of things. The banks here have and are being sued for all sorts of things, en-masse and usually in relation to fees they charge. The Government says it is 'cracking down' on them to make sure they do the right thing by the customers. We also have an independant bank ombudsman that will deal with any issues when the customer feels they are not getting anywhere.
Steven Unthank has a right to know why the Westpac Bank froze his monies and it should be a very easy matter of finding out how it happened. In his blog he says he is satisfied with what the bank had done and how they rectified it but does not explain how the problem came about in the first place. It would seem that he does not want to, or cannot, share the reason with the public. There is no reason why Steven Unthank would not be able to find out why it happened.
british dubs are invited to attend a special convention next summer in dublin , irish republic.
o k, this kind of trip has been done many times before.
however i have never seen such a crude and rigid set of rules that would apply to their own people going on a trip, at their own expense of course.
With all this planning is it possible that they are intending to bring some earth shattering (in JW land) changes to the organization at this special meeting? When you consider that they want no-one who is either spiritually or physically weak in attendance, including no young or immature children. They also want them to spend extra time together after the convention (for support?).
Has this special convention been held elsewhere or is it being held at the same time globally?
my firend (who is an elder) recently sent the email below trying to get me to come back.
he freely admits the faults of the wt and even goes on to say that even if they did not have gods holy spirit, he felt they would still have gods blessing as the one true religion.
i thought i would get your thoughts on this as it really is (sadly) delusional.
He has certainly put a lot of thought into his letter and I understand why you would want to reply to it. There are many sincere JWs and God reads hearts so he will judge them accordingly. It is true that many people don't delve deeper to come to a better knowledge and to make sure of all things. We are told to do this but some people either don't know how or don't have the inclination. Being spoon fed by the GB is so easy and many don't even know what they are eating. But we are individually responsible for what we consume.
He mentions a lot of 'apostacy' understandings but he failed to mention what I think (IMHO) to be the most important. The GB teaches that Jesus is not the mediator to all mankind. They teach that most JWs cannot be a part of the New Covenant. The GB have shut the Kingdom of God to many people.
He says
"Knowing them or not knowing them or having an accurate understanding of them have no bearing on our relationship with Jehovah or our salvation through the ransom sacrifice and survival in the new order....."
This statement goes against so much that the GB have printed in the magazines. There are numerous articles pointing out how important it is to accept the food from the GB and to be obediant to them. Why the meetings, why so much study, why is there no possibility of opposing views to that of the GB, why read the bible?
i just got a call from my 'faded' sister who still has the 'pleasure' of having contact with our jw family.. my mother called her and said that she and our dad had their circuit assembly this weekend and apparently a governing body member gave a talk... that seems very odd to me.
do governing body member usually speak at circuit assemblies?
maybe it was a branch member?.
The Manhattan project was reported as being set up to distribute bibles. If this is a report of the success they are having so far then it's not what they intended and it may be possible that they are trying to find some success in it.
