Posts by Retrovirus

13

Can You Explain This? (Blood)

by headisspinning in

i don't understand why the wt puts so much time and effort into informing people about the intricacies of blood transfusions and fractions, but they don't really focus attention on the dietary side of not eating blood.

because it was clearly a dietary restriction in the bible and maybe not so clearly in regard to blood transfusions (i'm still pondering this part).. is that ever discussed with bible studies or prior to baptism?

it seems to me that if the command to 'abstain from blood' is so important that people will put their life on the line over it, then shouldn't very clear direction be spelling out in detail about what foods are okay to eat and what foods aren't?

Retrovirus

Hi Headisspinning,

I could be called a Christian, the group I belong to have similar beliefs to Unitarians.

On the blood issue I'd just emphasise that blood transfusions were not known in Biblical times and therefore cannot be covered by what was or wasn't allowed then. When given intravenously, blood functions as an organ, and is not a food.

I also agree with Pirata's point - What is more important; the symbol of life or life itself?

So no, the WTs' complicated rules on blood fractions make no sense to me at all.

Retro

38

June 15th WT ( again ) WT Society Bashes College & Earning a Living

by flipper in

jw
friends

sorry for the redundancy of this being the 3rd article out of this magazine i've made a thread on- but i felt it was important to share these quotes from the aricle titled " make your way successful - how ?

" i think you'll see the extreme dissing of higher education here and guilt tactics used to discourage jw members from getting a college education or earning a decent living.. under the subheading " higher education " ?

it states, " a christian has a scriptural obligation to care for his family, and that includes providing for their material needs.

Retrovirus

A Christian has a scriptural obligation to care for his family, and that includes providing for their material needs. Still, does this really require a college or a university degree

Really horrible. Effectively saying "you needn't help your children get any reasonable qualifications" Yet I'm sure there's no problem if you support them while they endlessly pioneer?

Reminds me of my ex-MIL who had often been kept home from school to look after younger siblings - she did her very best to frustrate any career ambitions I had and guilt me if I put the kids into day care. This during the ex's bankruptcies!

Yet another attempt to tether the next generation. And it won't work.

68

June 15th WT - WT Society Pressures JW Parents to Indoctrinate Children

by flipper in

jw
friends

in a non-study article in the jw only watchtower is an article titled " should youths get baptized ?

" the wt society is losing young people in very large numbers - so how else to try stemming the exodus than putting pressure on jw parents to indoctrinate and instill mind control into their children ?

in one section here in this article it almost sounds like a version of " 20 questions " that the wt society asks parents to determine if their children are making " spiritual progress " as they phrase it.

Retrovirus

Mr Flipper, that's terrible! What kind of religion presumes to come between a parent and children.

But as a form of coercion, I doubt its long term success. Parents have threatened kids with "conform or lose out financially - free board, will etc" since forever and it's never been a good strategy; they lose the best ones who can make it on their own.

The shunning is a far worse step; that the jws are never allowed to mend the bridges.

Also just noticed the pic you pointed out of the babies "all born sinners" - wierd! Is that more of the "don't trust your heart, just follow whatever we say" stuff?

I just devoutly hope that any lurkers reading will find it in their hearts not to shun anyone and most especially not their own family. And also that your daughter keeps in touch.

Retro

68

June 15th WT - WT Society Pressures JW Parents to Indoctrinate Children

by flipper in

jw
friends

in a non-study article in the jw only watchtower is an article titled " should youths get baptized ?

" the wt society is losing young people in very large numbers - so how else to try stemming the exodus than putting pressure on jw parents to indoctrinate and instill mind control into their children ?

in one section here in this article it almost sounds like a version of " 20 questions " that the wt society asks parents to determine if their children are making " spiritual progress " as they phrase it.

Retrovirus

Ambersun wrote

That illustration of a son being booted out of the front door into a world he is totally unprepared for (having been isolated from it all his life) with his belongings crammed into the rucksack on his back fills me with horror

. . and as a mother, I feel it too.

Perhaps they should have titled it "By this ye shall know them, the love they have for one another?

The contradicitions astound me. . .

34

If People Told you the JW's Would Change These Beliefs & Practices.....

by flipper in

jw
friends

would you have believed it ?

( i give credit to the poster password protected for giving me the idea of this thread ) .. after exiting the witnesses in 2003 i have noticed many changes within the wt society which really surprised me but after analyzing the changes - they really have convinced me the wt society and jehovah's witnesses are a mind control cult intent on ruling people's lives.

here are some i have noticed that have changed :.

Retrovirus

FHN

Because there is one standard for new students and a completely different one for longer studied students and baptized witnesses.

True. Yet even as a "student" I soon learned that questioning could quickly be redefined as "opposing".

On topic - When my SIL first joined, over 25 years ago, there was still this sense of urgency, even excitement. (1975 plus however long it took to create Eve, maybe?)

Now she and my jw ladies sound repetitive and, I think, defensive. They cannot explain the latest "generation" reaoning, but simply quote it from the magazine, There is still mention of "soon" and "final days" but it really lacks conviction. After assemblies there is a short burst of excitement and I get a few visits but it quickly fades.

That's the main difference I see from the outside.

30

HELP! How do I FADE without being DF'D??

by doubtful in

jw
friends

i'm in a tough position.

i gave my last talk as an ms a couple of weeks ago, and i haven't been out in field service in well over a month.

i "came out" to the closest people in my life...namely my gf and mother...i was also recently asked to step down from being a servant - largely because my heart was no longer in it and i couldn't stomach going from door to door peddling magazines and other literature full of lies and logical fallacies.

Retrovirus

Doubtful,

First and most important, you are sick. Ulcers are a medical condition. Getting well is your first priority.

Stress is clearly a part of your condition. This means you need to address it through counselling (properly qualified, objective counselling, not elders!) and whatever else works for you (meditation, relaxation, yoga, pills etc). Get referrals from your doctor.

Would your mother accept advice from your doctor or counsellor that you should not be harassed into any discussions until your health improves?

Do not make decisions about your religion or anything else important until you are confident that you are fit to do so.

As a last resort if you are forced into a meeting, just thank them for their concern, say that you need to recover, can't discuss anything else right now. Thank them for your patience.

Good luck and keep posting. We'll be here for you.

Retro

64

Can We Please Stop Referring To The Simplified English Watchtower A The Dumbed Down Version

by Philadelphia Ponos in

jw
friends

i really shouldn't have to say any of this but as someone who is in the process of learning a second language, i can tell that simple language makes things a lot clearer when you are not familiar with the language.

everyone on here started out reading simplified english while they were learning, including you native speakers.

i'm sure no one here was reading on a college level in elementary school.

Retrovirus

I take Mad Sweeney's point that the simplified vaersion cannot be for ESL as there is already a version in their first language.

So, is it for born-in children? Or slower adults?

Odd, then, that the organization that is so proud of having the same service for all, even pre-schoolers, now wants to cater at two levels.

The only way it makes any sense is if they plan to make the new version the new standard. But, then, do they need to make sense?

8

untitled

by StopTheTears in

jw
friends

is there really a divine creator or did the universe around us just "evolve?

" what an incredible thought to even imagine that there could be a supernatural being so powerful as to create a universe.

wow!

Retrovirus

Oh dear, one of those threads.

I'll just respond to @Varian:

there are so many other questions about the so called evolution.

Indeed, fortunately scientists in many disciplines are the only ones likely to help with answers

why are we male and female?

Yeah, I researched this for my jw SIL too. Provided her with pages of good stuff about all the different forms af reproduction and she dismissed it all with "I expected you'd have some explanation" So if you do actually want to know do your own research. I suggest starting with unicellular life.

what did the spider eat before it could web?

I suppose it feasted on flowers in the garden of Eden? Not all spiders make webs! Research, not blather!

how did our sterokopic eyes get in touch with our brains?

Research the evolution of sight, google will help

what did birds do before they could fly?

Walked and/or climbed just as flightless birds and hoatzin do today.

and: what type of genes thought that aerodynamics where cool to develope on their own?

The "type" that flying squirrels have, that bats have, that flying snakes have?

hmmmmm............ SHEESH!! All this is freely available. Read up, please!

19

New to this forum and few thoughts.

by sweetrose74 in

well i have not been a part of the jws for over 12 years.

i was born and raised one.

indoctrincated from birth you can say.

Retrovirus

Welcome, sjac!

I hope you start your own thread and share your experiences a bit more; sounds like you have been through a lot!

I'm a non-jw with friends and family in and have learned a lot here. Hope you enjoy it too. FWIW, I'm also a mum who raised the kids as a single parent, and I do feel for you.

Retro

76

Prayers for my daughter, Ali, not a good update

by coffee_black in

jw
friends

my last update on my daughter was so good...but it didn't turn out that way.

she was cleared to go back to work, but with limitations... she couldn't lift more than 10 pounds.

her employer wanted her back but wouldn't agree to the lifting restriction.

Retrovirus

Thanks for the update; sounds hopeful! And do keep taking care of yourself too.