Posts by Liberty

28

Do You Ever Think "The End" Will Happen?

by minimus in

jw
friends

or is it all jw bull?

Liberty

Thanks for starting these topics Minimus I really enjoy them,

It is all JW BS, all the evidence says there will be no God induced big "A" event. After taking a lot of classes at University which presented an incredable amout of hard evidence that the Earth is immensly old and was not formed or shaped by any of the events recorded in the Bible I think it's a safe bet that the Watch Tower Society doesn't have the foggiest notion even about the past let alone the future. The WTS has NEVER gotten one thing right yet as far as predictions go so I'm not the least bit worried about the END as they see it. We do know however, that there have been some huge events over billions of years which have caused the extinction of 99% of all living things on the planet which quite probably were caused by bolide (large astroid) impacts. The Earth is enormous however, so life has always managed to recover despite all the climate changes and impacts so I think we will have plenty of time to spread across space bringing earthly life forms to the rest of the uninhabited Universe and hopefully sharing it with what ever extra terrestrial life forms we may encounter. Eventually the Earth will be destroyed by the natural forces which created it but it will be a looong time in the future and hopefully by then our decendants will have many options for habitation far away from danger.

32

The Question Of The Day Do You Want Eternal Life?

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you still hope to live forever?

Liberty

Love your topics Minimus,

I wish we could live forever, especially if we never had to watch our loved ones get sick, suffer, and die while the survivors get to "enjoy" that sick empty feeling which surrounds the whole affair. That's why the Watch Tower frauds could dupe people into joining because their promise was so wonderful. Unfortunately, like most magical or supernatural claims, the Watch Tower solution to our problems is a pipe dream made of the finest opiums, self delusion.

I am not a skepic by nature but I've studied hard to try and be one after getting burned by the Watch Tower Society and their false promises. I think most of the poor bastards in charge believe their own bullshit and many underlings certainly do so at least they are victims of their own frauds too. This is not punishment enough for all the suffering they've caused but I'm sure they must face their share of anxiety ridden sleepless nights as the little fellow in their heads keeps asking, "but what if we're wrong?". I am reminded to quote Farkel, "Then they died" for every generation promised by the WT that they never would, soon the current leadership will join the rest. I suppose there is some little justice in this.

I would rather put my faith in science which at least has a slim chance of prolonging our lives and making the world a better place to live in. I am a skeptic but I want to hold on to my hope. I would be satisfied with a long, semi-pain free, and productive life because that is the best most of us can realistically hope for.

36

Spousal Abuse Thoughts

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

i have been having an ongoing discussion with a friend about spousal abuse.

she has come to accept and believe that i have never hit a woman in my life, but feels that i am a rarity.

i contend that i am not, that although too many men still hit their wives, they are in the minority.

Liberty

I too have never hit a woman in my life. I love my mother dearly and generally equate my close female friends and lover with this feeling. The thought of striking my mother sickens me and therefore the thought of striking females in general is very repulsive. I don't generally want to hit men either but have in self defense. I'm a big guy so there are very few women who could credably represent a real threat to the point where I would consider hitting them even in a fight. I don't undrstand beating women unless they represent a real danger to life and limb and you don't have the option of walking away. I would agree that radical feminists probably over estimate the percentage of men who would really beat a defensless woman. Most men I know won't hit girls but that doesn't mean there are not some real sickos out there ruining it for the rest of us.

22

Need help with my husband!

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

brief background info - hubby and i were both raised in the borg.

he started having doubts years before me but kept silent.

i came across info on the internet, ordered ray franz' books, found h20 website, then this one.

Liberty

The Watch Tower brainwashes us to believe that if we feel bad or have problems it must be because we are "away from Jehovah's spirit" while the reality is that everyone feels depressed and empty sometimes whether they have ever been religious or not. Logically, how could "worldly people" ever feel happy if they have lived their whole lives far removed from Ol'Jehoover's "true" organization? It's obvious that the WT Society uses an old trick from the handbook of all supernatualist frauds and that is to take a normal human emotion and precondition their dupes into believing that it has a special meaning for which only these frauds have the cure. The same trick is used for people whose kids get into trouble, whose marriages go bad, or whose health fails.

If what the Watch Tower taught were true then JWs should have a higher rate of happiness, good health, better kids, and marital bliss than the general population around them and yet all the evidence I've seen says this is clearly not the case. Everybody has both happiness and troubles regardless of their beliefs, therefore, logic dictates that there is no causal relationship between having "Jehovah's spirit" and living a pain free life. The Watch Tower Society can't protect us from the harsh and random realities of life any more than the Baptists can. I know it is hard to overcome JW conditioning but ask your husband to objectively look at a random sample of "worldly" folks from your same social class and compare them with the JWs he knows to try and find a significant difference in the problems they face or happiness they experiance so he can see for himself that this is just another lie told by the WT Society used to control their victims. I know its hard because it took me years to finally let the evidence speak for itself, Jehovah's spirit or not, life is sometimes unpleasant and the WT offers nothing but hollow fantasy in exchange for sacrificing our lives to their control.

38

How long are people remembered?

by joelbear in

jw
friends

.

unless you are famous for something how long are you really remembered?.

maybe you are remembered at most by your grandchildren, but then your presence in the universe is gone.. so, really, what difference does it make whether you die in your 40's or your 70's, your memory simply lingers another 30 years at most.

Liberty

Hi Joelbear,

I would agree with you if you were talking about terminal cancer or another as yet incurable ailment and if a person only has a few months to live with no treatment available then they shouldn't suffer needlessly. You are not terminal though, nor have you tried every treatment. They can now electrically stimulate parts of the brain to relieve depression. There are also new drugs coming out all the time so there is hope left for you. I know it must be hard because you don't see that there are solutions but please give yourself a chance. I don't want you to suffer or just tough it out, that is why they invented drugs. Have your Dr. give you a stop gap drug which aleviates some of your symptoms while you look at other alternatives. Isn't radical brain surgery worth a try when death is your other choice? Look into it and use your Dr., that's what they get paid the big bucks for. Stay on them until they can give you some relief, make them earn their money. You have a serious life-threatening illness and they are sworn to help you. Let them know you are thinking of killing yourself. Let them know that you really need their help. Things will get better, you will feel better. You will not always feel the same despite how it looks now.

Edited by - Liberty on 26 November 2002 16:24:13

38

How long are people remembered?

by joelbear in

jw
friends

.

unless you are famous for something how long are you really remembered?.

maybe you are remembered at most by your grandchildren, but then your presence in the universe is gone.. so, really, what difference does it make whether you die in your 40's or your 70's, your memory simply lingers another 30 years at most.

Liberty

Hi Joelbear,

I have a good friend who suffers with bouts of depression and she makes statements like yours frequently. Such conclusions loosley based on the truth as, "we won't be remembered anyway", or "it doesn't matter when we die", and "no one will care if I die", are all justifications for commiting suicide so that she can end her mental pain. I fear you are depressed as well but please try and remember that our view of reality at any given moment may not always reflect reality, especially if you are depressed. My friend says I don't understand because I don't feel the same way she does and, you know what, she is right. I can only know what I feel but the evidence all around me says that life is worth living even if we are not remembered at all. Live your life for the here and now and for your friends, family, and any strangers we might contact because that is what really matters. It sounds cliche'ed and corny but all we will really ever have are each other living in the here and now and people do care and remember every kind word or gesture we exchange despite our fear, selfishness, anger, and pain. We all make a difference in the here and now and because of that we all have an impact on eternity.

Helping each other creates a cycle of kindness that can overcome hate and negativity even if we don't remember the specific act or the specific person who started it. Evil starts a similar cycle but all the evidence I've seen says that most people I've met have an instinct for kindness when given even the smallest chance. Joelbear, you really do make a difference because you are here posting right now and long after we are dead and gone the cycles of our small kind acts, our sharing of experiance and knowledge, and human warmth will continue to ripple on to others who come after us. Despite how it might feel or the media may report it there is less suffering and death in the world today because of the many small efforts made throughout history by the people who are now long dead and "forgotten" because they left us their knowledge and love. We have less general violence, more prosperity, better medical care and pain relief, higher infant survival rates, and more effecient use of our resources than ever before and we still have an entire Universe to explore waiting to meet our needs if we just give ourselves a chance. Negative hate religions like the Watch Tower Society which revel in suffering will one day be designated to the ash heap of history like Communism was. The World is getting better. Just look at the past if you don't believe me. Ignorance and fear are slowly being displaced by knowledge and truth because of the efforts made by people just like you and me a little at a time. Metatron posts things all the time proving my point. Things are getting better because of human beings and not worse like the religions and negativists want us to believe. Please try and remember how important every kind person's life is to the future, especially your own.

23

Who Is Held Accountable?

by Funchback in

i am having a difficult time understanding something.

the bible says that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous.

the jws apply this teaching as though the resurrection is an earthly one.

Liberty

Funchback you are right on the money with this observation!,

Love the name by the way. This is just one of many Watch Towerisms that make no logical sense. If mass murdrers die the day before the big "A" they get a second chance but my Grandma, who never harmed anyone, is dead forever because she just happened to live 24 more hours as a non JW? This is crazy! I can't believe I used to buy this nonsense. What kind of super being capable of creating an entire Universe would come up with such an unfair justice system based soley on random chance? It makes about as much sense as believing that Ol'Jehoover favors the Christian West while ignoring the majority of the Earth's population in Asian, Hindu, and Muslim countries since so few of the later are inclined to become JWs due to their cultures which they didn't choose but arrived in randomly by accident of geographic birth place. The whole Watch Tower justice system crumbles under the application of a little fairness and logic and makes even the worse human devised court systems look fair by comparison. What about the retarded and mentally ill? Children and babies? The Watch Tower says they all must die too unless their caretakers have "The Truth". The whole Watch Tower belief system is crazy and these points are just the tip of the ice berg. I'm glad I woke up because I couldn't stomach this insanity and got out when I did. Even if the Watch Tower is right I would rather die than serve the wacko killer God they promote and His chaotic judgements.

16

ADVICE NEEDED

by Mary in

jw
friends

i need some advice on this one: a friend of mine who is still an active jw called me today all freaked out because another friend of hers, who only got baptized this summer, wants to leave "the truth".

this is because she's been talking to "worldly" people and they've almost got her convinced that the religion is a cult.. .

my girlfriend, sarah says of course, that this is "satan" trying to blind her, etc.

Liberty

Hi Mary,

You have a very difficult problem. We might not know all the details so take this into consideration when evaluating our advice. If you depend upon or highly value your friend's continued support and association then you should be prepared for the very worst if you confront her about her religion. JWs often go ballistic when they discover your true feelings about their cult and may cut themselves off from your association completely. Can you handle this reaction? If you are not sure you can handle a worst case scenario then you should keep your feelings to yourself. If you trust that your friend will remain loyal despite your beliefs then be honest and let her know about your concerns and reservations. I too feel it is my responsibility to tell people the truth but it is your friend who is in a cult and is creating a stressful situation for you so your responsibility is limited by circumstances beyond your control. You are not obligated to join her in this cult mindset madness by arguing with her if it will do no good.

22

How About a Little Wager?

by metatron in

jw
friends

here's some fun!

next time you meet some vacuum skulled witness that believes.

armageddon is "soon", challenge them to define "soon".. is "soon" 6 months?

Liberty

I really enjoy your posts Metatron,

A while back I challenged our resident doomsayer, You Know, to meet me after another 40 years (if we can both still get around due to our advanced ages by that time, that is) to share a friendly drink while he admits he was wrong about the Big A coming any day now 40 years past. This was just a little wager of his humility all in good fun so we could have a laugh together about it but You Know wasn't very interested in the odds despite his supposed confidence that Ol'Jehoover's Day of Wrath is due real soon. I don't want to rub anybody's nose in it too much because 30 years ago I was just as convinced that I'd never get old and have to watch my parents and loved ones die of old age either but I will readily admit today that I was a fool for having believed in this nonsense. If I had a dime for every time I heard, "This Wicked Old System can't possibly last even two more years at the rate things are going!", I'd be a very rich man. Apparently this "Wicked System" is like the Energizer Bunny because it just keeps on going and going and going....unlike the wasted lives of JWs who miss out on a real life while waiting on the pipe dreams of The Governing Idiots.

66

Kangaroos and the Flood

by Zechariah in

jw
friends

noahs descendants .

genesis 10. the table of nations .

the japhethites .

Liberty

Sorry Zech,

You didn't address my primary argument against the global flood which does not rely directly on what scientists say or believe. I can make my own observations about fresh water life and marine life without the influence of scientists. I know from my own experiance that you cannot keep most of these life forms in an aquatic environment which is the opposite of that from which they came. You did not give me an explaination at all, let alone a well reasoned one, as to how, after a recent global flood, we can still have both life forms surviving on the Earth today. It seems you didn't even read my post since I made it clear that there are common sense problems with the biblical flood even if we forgot about the scientific evidence against it.

I don't claim that God is a liar but I do know that the Bible is filled with false information. The Bible is not God. The Bible has been proven to be a book written by men and men alone as it contains nothing which was not already known to the ancient world at the time of its writing. There is no evidence that super spirit beings capable of creating the Universe had anything to do with the Bible. I can't prove God a liar because He never has claimed anything to be true or false. God has presented no case so it cannot be proven true or false. I do know what my eyes and mind tell me and everything I've seen tells me that the Bible is often mistaken. There was NO Flood, Tower of Babel, or Creation sequence as described by the Bible because common sense and my own observations of the natural world do not fit the biblical model. You refuse to see the evidence because the Bible is your God. You cannot answer the challenges presented because you defend the unprovable. Your culture made you a Christian and you remain one despite the evidence that your only tangable link to your God, an old book, is filled with faulty and outdated information. If you will not listen to your own reasoning from observations or trust your own eyes to see reality then we cannot help you. You are unable to present any compelling evidence for your beliefs so how can you help us become believers? If you answer the problems presented we can try and understand your position but if I am given no reasons for believing in your book why should we blindly accept it as reality? If there is no evidence from the real world that the Bible is true then why not believe all ancient books are equally inspired by God because they are all equally unprovable and defy logic?