Posts by lurk

76

Why is there death and suffering?

by hooberus in

why is there death and suffering?

a biblical perspective.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/death_suffering.asp.

lurk

It's really surprising the question would even be asked, if you think about it, because it's so natural and a part of everything we know. It's only the religious aspect that even brings up questions about it.

i dont get why you assume because it happens its natural. and only religion questions it.

scientists that dont belive in god are out there spending millions on the question of ageing and why we die....attemtping understand the genes responsible.

hundred of thousands of ppl are born every year with deformities and illness but we dont say its okay because it always happens there fore its natural ...doctors try to save sick people and discover what causes ilnesses etc etc and now even play with genetics so new generations dont suffer.by your reasoning we should except it all, not question it and get on with natural selection .

women have always died in child birth but we dont excpet it as natural...if modern science can reduce the amount of women that die in child birth then modern science is tackling death and the reasons for it .and that is only science as far as it goes to day .....as far as any universal truth may go (as in the reality of everything not as in the truth excpeted by the majority) we may still be at the stone age end of our full achievement

maybe in the past less mutated gene did allow us to live for much longer periods of time

who knows what lies a head death may simply turn out to be a mile stone as was going in to space.

and if science can do that oen day who is to say what out origianal state was .may be we did in a less mutated society live for longer periods of time.........as for everlasting life maybe thats to come .maybe not..

surely questioning is part of our nature..........so why wouldn you question it .

if we no one questioned we'd still be sailing with in safe borders to prevent falling fo the edge of the world

who knows may be our future will be more like the past of our ancestors belived in .the days of the immortals.

long live the questioners

19

2 Very Nice & Sincere People

by Paradise Found in

whilst shopping today i met a young newly married witness couple.

whilst i havnt been in a kingdom hall in over 2 years.

they were very friendly and it was nice we could talk on things other than safe-subjects.

lurk

"JWD".

?

19

2 Very Nice & Sincere People

by Paradise Found in

whilst shopping today i met a young newly married witness couple.

whilst i havnt been in a kingdom hall in over 2 years.

they were very friendly and it was nice we could talk on things other than safe-subjects.

lurk

Even if the UN were to patch up some temporary peace, wars would soon erupt again

yes the silly efforts of men to stop a war and killing should be dismissed with a cocky shrugg of the shoulders and consigned to the bin along with pre witness christian efforts like translating the bible so for all ment o read and getting murdered for it etc etc.

how snearing people must have found me when i spouted this kinda crap

It was a outside advertising agency that was involved"

LOL

the WTS hired an advertising agency to sign all he forms that joined them to the UN?

the WTS signiture isnt on the forms?

the WTS never read NGO forms ?

they didnt attend the UN meetings ?

why do advertsing people want to sign up for the UN?

the name of the advertsing group is the WTS?

id like the name of the advertising group

lurking as ever

28

August 1st Botchtower - Rutherford - strong, yet humble

by truthseeker in

jeez, i cannot believe the crap they print.

i am convinced that the gb believe they are jehovah god.

everything makes sense now.. 1st study article .

lurk

hello im back(if you knew i was gone )

A woman is nothing more than "a hank of hair and a bag of bones." -- Speech given at a 1941 St. Louis, MO convention once again discouraging marriage.

blondie ..he would ahve got along well with st paul .didint paul say women were only spared because of their wombs.

lurk

5

Iraq; Regime Change?

by William Penwell in

lurk

LOL

I don't think making fun of those in charge here is funny.

sorry that was n't supose to be a joke?

sarcastic cartoons of those in charge is the only light relief in the whole awful business.lets face it if you can't take it don't do it.

16

WTS law and oral law

by lurk in

has the wts commited the same folly as the writers of the oral law?

in a magazine some years ago there was an article on the oral law.

it discribed how the oral law was developed to be like a fence around the writen law to prevent ppl from breaking the writen law.the article showed how the priests, who invented the law ,were laying a burden on jehovahs ppl that the didnt need ,sort of saying how wrong and misdirected the priests were.

lurk

hope the WTS didn't try to make this seem like some new revelation. The Jews themselves are the ones that came up with the analogy of placing a fence around the Law, and then a fence around the fence, so as to keep people from trangressing the law.

no they didnt ,yes the history of oral law is well known bye the WTS too ,which is why i quoted them.

43

The TRUTH for dummies. Chapter 1

by beaker in

being only newly freed from the wts, there are many people who were my friends that i would like to be able to explain the truth about many of the points raised on this board.

so i have decided to compile a publication that i can mail to them with short succinct, hardhitting reasoning on areas where the wts is misleading them and also areas where they are saying one thing but practising another.

i would like to be able to limit the explanations to one topic per page with the hope that if there is not too much too read they may just bother to read it.

lurk

A true Christian celebrates the resurrection

will isnt that what ppl accuse the WTS of doing? excluding ppl who cant be true christians if they dont belive in the same way?

A catholics answer to JW's

is that a good idea..?.if it looks like a catholic attempt's to convert you or wreck your faith (which is how it will be seen) the brocuhre will go straight in the bin and be another example of satans influence.

is the brochure about converting ppl to the catholic way of thinking or is it about revealing the history of the org to those who dont relize whats been going on .?

if its a simple list of facts with no religious bias then it might be read with an open mind(as open as you can get in the org)

most ppl here are x jw's also X publishers and X studies.

no one is superior now we've left , just becuase we had our eyes opened .there are alot of decent ppl struggling to keep faith and do their best. would the following show you this person is trying to help you or attack you? honestly? i know that i would have thrown any leaflet like this in the bin, how ever i did listened to a balanced unbias comments from other brothers an sisters who had niggling doubts and questions . the comments below have no back up they just read like a list of insults.but then if thats all the intension is.......that it will work wonders. the writer doesnt seem to relize that JWs face this kind of stuff all the time..insults are 2 a penny an seen as proof that satan is attacking jehovah.

1) They all think and act alike. To know one is to know them all.

2) The 'Good News' they preach is not the Bible, but Armageddon.

3) They come to your door for only one reason, to tear you away from your religion.

4) They have made so many false promises and so often predicted 'the end', they are not worthy of your trust.

5) All of their beliefs about everything are totally controlled by publications from the WTS.

6) Their publications are filled with harsh and severe words of condemnation as they teach and preach that everything and everyone in life - schools, government, workplaces, churches, religion, music and entertainment, all in life, is under a 'wicked system of things' controlled by Satan.

7) Their idea of 'brotherly love' seems to be little more than a contest of who can 'sell' the most magazines, books, etc.

8) They blindly ignore real human needs as if they did not exist.

9) You will find no mention of charity or true brotherly love, but over and over you will hear and read about how evil and wicked everyone is and how everyone except for this tiny group of Jehovah's Witnesses will be violently destroyed by Jehovah at Armagedon. Soon, very soon, just around the corner.

10) There are basically 3 types of people that fall for them:

a) Those that are lonely and depressed and feel that no one cares. They will welcome the company.

b) Those that are lukewarm about God and religion and already find things wrong in the church will be easy to convince and persuade, especially if something in their lives is particularly at odds with their religion (like divorce used to be for many.)

c) Those that have a 'cross to bear' in their lives, like poverty, a marriage without love, or a life filled with arguments and problems. They will find the idea of Armageddon and the destuction of everyone - and paradise just around the corner - to be very appealing.

11) Finally (for now), D'Angelo finds the Jehovah's Witnesses to be the 'most self-centered religion imagineable'.

if this is such an improvement and should enlighten JW's why doesnt it have a deapth of human understanding in attempting to help them? it read more like a Catholisisum v JW's to me .

insulting ppl very rarely does anything but make the insulter feel moraly superior ,it can win arguments but it never wins hearts.

19

I let a friend know I was having problems......

by nemo in

hello everyone nemo here...just keep swimming, swimming, swimming.. anyway, i let my closest friend know how i felt currently about the organization and what affect it has had on me.

she has agreed to not share it with anyone, she won't, but these are the questions she possed to me.

i need to reply soon but my mind is overwhelmed with everything i have learned so i would like help formulating some answers.

lurk

Do not be trapped into thinking that you are incapable of knowing and that they "Must be right"

good advice.

.

this is my advice list i wrote last year to myself if i ever had to face interogation.

1) if possible make notes and pick out key issues and words

2) keep replies simple by using key isssues.

3) use short notes with key words ,don't be afriad to sit infrount of them with notes and evidence and refer to it.

4) If at any point you are lost and can't see why you ever disagreed with them .make and excuse to leave room ,like say you need to go to the bathroom , sit for a few minute's and gather your thoughts.go over your reasons again.take as long as you need.

distractions are helpfull and give you time to regroup..make cups of tea....remeber you just need to put some washing in the machine and you'll e right back.

5) ,if they were true then jehavah would respect your wanting total truth not false religion,know that in your heart.

6)dont take it to seriously .your life and faith is not about weather other people except how you feel.

7) if desperate fake illness and ask him/her to come back when your diahoreah has stopped,make faces like your about to blow up.

LOL at that list , how sad is that, i must have been nervous to have kept it.

as for those questions this is how i'd answer

Do you believe that Jehovah is using earthly organization? no i belive that jesus taugh the message and after that the churchs became corupt .who was the faith slave before the WTS? from 33 AD to 1900 AD ?

Do believe that the new system is coming? you missed it , it came in 1914,(id show her quotes) then ask if she thought ppl who didnt believe what was taught about 1914 are condemed by god?

Do you believe that Jehovah has requirements for those that will survive? yes

Do you think that there is any other organization that adheres to them better? thats trying to get you to say yes or no ......assuming that they are adhereing .....id say im still waiting for it to arrive .....someone who doesnt keep changing there beliefs .id quote the bible in bible where it says if they teach somthing beyond what they already declared as good news let them be accursed.then id place a pile of printed quotes in froun of her. an say thats wh i dont belive in your org.

id ask if jehovahs requirements included believeing russels word that jesus came in 1874/78 or that the end was in 1914 ..if i dont do i get destroyed? do i have to teach that jesus came in 1878? i'd ask what happend to he ppl who didnt belive the end would come in 1914?

i dont think that any of you religious organizations adhere to the basic message your to busy gettting preaching false end of world dates.id then mention 1799 ,1874/1878,1914,1925,1941,1975

i would then ask if her how many times moses preached somthing that didnt happen and wasnt a punishment?how many times moses preached soemthing then changed the dates continually.

does jehovah teach a lie ever?does he cause it to be preached as truth and change it? why does the WTS do that?

why was the WTS in the UN.id show her my email from UN. and proof that it couldnt be for library card.

i d ask her why she consorts with the beast

id ask her why did god cause the pagan pyramids to eb taught as truth?

63

Jehovahs Witness Is A Cult?

by Spooner in

so?

lurk

I always remeber a dear friend of my mothers who one night had one sherry to many and discribed how us prodestants were all gonna burn in hell fire..i can remeber the relish with which she discribed it with.

if she'd have been around in the spanish inquisition she'd of have had alovely time.

before studying with the WTS I took alook at the catholic church (since my great grandparents had been catholics.) after a few weeks with a pile history book's, both in favour and against and impartial history , i gave up on that idea of becomeing catholic...saddly i didnt' read a history book on the WTS till it was to late.

time and time again i hear ppl saying.."oh why do you go on about history that was ages ago ,we've changed ,"or "oh stop going back to history we appologised for that"

(usually the point at which we say history doesnt count is the point at which it becomes inconvieniant to remeber it.such as radical changes in society .like no longer get away with burning witches ,not cause those who do it want to stop but because society changed and made it stop )

everything we are is history ,what happened yesterday ,last week , or last year ..which is why WTS is wrong ..because of its history .biblicaly speaking Isreal had a history of turning from god and doing what they should not long before jesus came along , it wasnt the crucifixtion of the NT alone that cause 70 AD it was the history of Isreal .It took a whole history to get then down that final leg of the journey.

the WTS is not wrong in my opionion because it doesn't admit its has been wrong,they could admit it and play the repentant quite easily and still get away with being right ,ppl do it every day in religion and in non religious life . to me its the history of the org that has shown what they are made of , the history of the spirit of the WTS.

I have since found that reflective of most religions.

sorry did i just go of topic for a ranting moment there?

personaly i dont belive in any religious group anymore,i believe ,through my experinces so far ,that in the end there is just the individual ,i don't think any church can save you ,.churchs believe what they want to believe ..ppl can wave the banner for what ever dogma they are peddaling and which they have become reliant on or comfortable with.

do i belive in jesus christ ? at the moment im not sure , i want to but thats not a good enough reason to beleive(for me), i have many miles to go before im out of the shadow of the WTS .

theres on thing i do know ,that in the end ,through reading the bible ,that my salvation would be through christ, not human beings .

In the end, I very much believe, that we stand or fall as individuals ,what ever that end may be.

80

To the theists (Christian or otherwise)....

by logansrun in

my question to you: why does god permit evil?

this is not a bait but something i'd really like to get your view on.

thanks.. bradley

lurk

I think Augustine's solution to theodicy is more logical. God allows evil to occur because this allows a greater good to be performed, for Augustine this would be the salvific death of Christ.

logical..i may be being thick here so please explain if im not getting it but... how could god allow evil so that the greater good can happen ie: salavation via death of christ . the salvation /death only occurs because of evil exsisting...itsnt it circular argument to suppose evil exsist's for good to happen which will end evil (via salvation )?

im not getting that at all